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Post by glen on Dec 17, 2017 20:42:23 GMT -6
This is a copy of one of Georges posts on Garden web that is more than 12 years old. George even has a different name for this greasy bean. By the way, my research on Greasy beans is not very clear except that most people seem to feel that greasy beans come from the Cherokee Indians that lived in the Appalachion Mountain region or East Tennessee or Western North Carolina. The Cherokee also had to migrate apparently to OK on what they call the "trail of tears". I don't know all the details. We are guessing when we say that Oaxacan Cream beans migrated to Mexico somehow but its a good guess. Here is Georges GardenWeb post from many years ago.
Macmex(6B)
Hi folks, Don't know if anyone is still following this thread. I'm an SSE member and have been offering Black Greasy. That variety was a sport out of Large Early Greasy (white seeded), which I got from Tom Knoche, who purchased mixed seed in NC. The first black seed was all on one plant in my garden, in IN, in 1985. Then, when my family and I headed off to Mexico for 14+ years, I sent my bean collection to Mark Futterman, in CA, who maintained it. He sent me seed back a few years before we returned from Mexico. Interestingly, last year (2004) I planted what I thought was a second planting of a family heirloom, from my wife's family (Tennessee Cutshort), which was older seed, in an unmarked plastic bag, which I brought back from Mexico. The vines grew and grew, but only flowered very late in the season, here in NJ. They almost didn't make seed. In fact I had to pick the maturing pods and dry them in the house, in order to get seed. The bean wasn't Tennessee Cutshort at all! It was a greasy cutshort, longer than Tennessee Cutshort, with 7" pods. The pods were really fat and round too. This variety is tasty. But obviously day light sensitive. I dubbed it Mexican Greasy Cutshort. During our years in Mexico, I taught in a Bible Institute which catered to indigenous people. Most knew of my great love of seeds and gardening, and would often bring me "a little sack of seeds" after a break when they went home to their villages. This little sack must have slipped through my labeling and remained in the bottom of the seed box until I decided to plant it, thinking it was a different variety. I have very limited seed, and cannot plant this year. But hopefully next year I will reproduce it and get it into the SSE.
Regards,
George SSE - NJ/MC-G Sometime back in 2005
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Post by macmex on Dec 21, 2017 13:50:59 GMT -6
Yes, I had that little bag of seed, unmarked, at the bottom of my seed box, probably from 1999 until 2004. It took me a while to remember the details. What helped was to go over some old correspondence I had with Merry Youle. There, I discovered that I had previously named the bean Oaxaca Cream. "Mexican Greasy Cutshort" would be a fitting name. But I chose to go back to the first name.
Glen, I'm thrilled that it does well for you there! In my opinion, based on the two crops I have managed to make, this one is one of the best green beans out there. It is REALLY good! The pods are so nice and large, yet when strung, super tender. I think you'll really enjoy them.
We need to find someone living in southern Florida or along the Gulf Coast to adopt this bean.
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Post by glen on Dec 21, 2017 21:48:10 GMT -6
I think it is worth it for you and Ron to try the seed again. We need seed anyways. While we are trialing the seed some more we can be on the look out for someone serious like Merry Youle was about adopting the seed. I will continue to trial it for the time being only because I think the variety merits it. I have a good sized second trial started outside and for the moment I have no water because my well pump died. We also have no rain now. I have been concerned about the new trial drying out and dying. Its bright, windy and hot outside. The new seedlings are doing just fine. They are very tolerant of the conditions I have right now. Very drought resistant. My peppers are having a hard time right now. The okra and the beans are just happy as they can be. If those beans do well during this dry season I am sold on this variety. I don't have much back ground information on this bean but its possible it came from a fairly dry place. So, this trial is very important because dry season gardening is super tough on the plants. The wind and the super powerful sun and the heat just pulls the moisture out of the ground.
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Post by glen on Dec 23, 2017 20:24:37 GMT -6
I just filled a peanut butter jar with seed and put it in the freezer. It is the lions share of the saved seed. It is a small peanut butter jar and it is only half full. The seed looks big at first but dry's down to small seed in front of a fan. The peanut butter jar is 12 oz I think, it cost me 2 dollars for the jar in the super market so its small. There is quite a bit of seed in that jar but if I was growing it for food I would probably be disappointed. I have more seed to harvest but its not going to fill this jar with seed.
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Post by macmex on Dec 24, 2017 5:58:53 GMT -6
That's generally the way it goes with beans which are good for snaps. Tennessee Cutshort, for instance, looks like it would be a good dry bean. Yet, in reality, I've never harvested more than a couple quarts of seed. On the other hand, Tarahumara Pink Green Bean and Tarahumara Purple Ojos both produce significantly more volume of seed. Tarahumara Pink Green Bean makes a decent snap. Tarahumara Purple Ojos does not.
I'd recommend, at least with a couple dozen seed, that you dry them significantly longer and freeze them in a different jar, ... just in case. I might be a bit paranoid, but I once lost my seed of Tarahumara Pink Green Bean because I thought it was dry enough, and it wasn't. After freezing, none of it would germinate, though it looked fine.
A couple years later I had a similar experience with Tarahumara Purple Ojos. An entire quart of seed came up dead when I went to plant. I thought I'd lost the variety, just like I had Tarahumara Pink Green Bean. But then, this fall, I was going through my seeds and discovered that I had another whole quart of that seed, which apparently I processed separately. I ran a germination test on it and got 100% germination!
I think I have this problem, more often with the seeds I most want to save. I probably end up jumping the gun on freezing, when they look dry, but aren't.
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Post by glen on Dec 26, 2017 19:41:00 GMT -6
I am glad you talked about freezing seed. I will be patient about putting any more seed in the freezer. The seed that I just put in the freezer had been drying for several weeks and was nice and hard. But, you never know.
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Post by glen on Dec 31, 2017 19:12:54 GMT -6
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Post by macmex on Jan 1, 2018 6:43:22 GMT -6
Looking great! That's an impressive planting!
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Jan 2, 2018 23:33:20 GMT -6
Looks great, Glen.
Keep up the good work. Thank you for the pictures of green in the dead of Winter. We needed that. I get tired of seeing nothing but crunchy, brown leaves and ice every day. The pictures and the writings you share are a good 'pick-me-up' and greatly appreciated this time of year.
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Post by glen on Jan 4, 2018 20:24:10 GMT -6
Hi Ron, for me, this is the start of a new season. We don't have a cold season. Just a dry season, which we are entering, and a rainy season. Some tropical areas have several rainy seasons and dry seasons. The Las Santos Province is the dryest area in Panama. In fact, this is the first year I can remember where we are getting some rain this late in the season. Last night it rained almost all night. I cannot remember when it ever rained in January. We are going to find out how well legumes can do during the dry season here. A very good experiment. I think legumes should do pretty well. Cowpea's do well during the rainy season as well. Oaxacan Creme beans are a variety that I just don't know that much about. We have a nice row of those growing also. This should be an interesting experiment. None of the Long Beans have germinated yet. I used frozen seed. Frozen seed takes a lot longer to germinate. Both of these variety's of legume are totally different from each other. Both can be used as a snap bean. The oaxahan creme bean so far has proven to be challenging to grow. Long Beans are usually pretty easy to grow. Kind of like blackeyed peas. If you can't grow blackeyed peas I don't know what to say.
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Post by glen on Jan 6, 2018 17:02:45 GMT -6
Latest photo's of the next cream bean planting. They are happier in the dry season. There is a pest problem on the leaves. I haven't seen the pests but they leave little holes in the leaves. So far though, I have noticed that they seem to have less pest problems than the Long beans. The first go around I did have cut worms during the rainy season. So far none. These vines are very young and are about 3 feet tall. They should begin to put on secondary branching fairly soon and fill out the trellis better. Dont forget to click on the foto's for an enlarged peek.
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Post by glen on Jan 10, 2018 19:09:55 GMT -6
These Mexican jumping beans really grow tall fast. They are already as tall as I am. About 3 weeks old. They will probably get a lot fuller later with lots of side shoots coming off the vines. I have never tried growing this variety so close together. So far it seems fine.
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Post by macmex on Jan 11, 2018 6:21:43 GMT -6
Glen, they look great! That's as good as I would expect in any place I've ever seen them grown. This is wonderful!
George
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Post by glen on Jan 11, 2018 10:22:43 GMT -6
I will take foto's so you can see the progress in a week or so. They are going to use up the trellis soon as far as height and probably start folding over. The wierd thing about this variety is that it grows so fast but it waits to put on pods for a long time. I am not sure yet if the climate makes any difference yet as far as when pods begin to be formed. There is a lot more sun and higher temperatures now. Daylength here is pretty much the same here all year, not changing more than about 30 minutes either way. Last time I grew these beans, it bloomed real fast but didn't put on pods for a long time.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Jan 11, 2018 22:02:13 GMT -6
I'm with George, those plants look great! Thanks for sending pictures. Hopefully, tomorrow when the Post Office opens I'll be sending you more TAM pepper seeds. I put some Roselle seeds in there from George and Hank too. I hope you get them this time.
Ron
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