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Post by heavyhitterokra on Aug 15, 2022 21:06:39 GMT -6
I'm proud of you guys! It sounds like we'll have great fun mixing up batches of this stuff and comparing notes. I think I've had the best luck using plastic 55-gallon barrels to contain mine while it's composting. I have a neighbor who has a dairy, so I get the barrels cheap. They were once full of udder cream. I just cut off the lids and wash them out when he's done with them. I also use old cattle mineral lick tubs, which are much easier to handle. I get those, used, from the Farmers" Co-op for $4.00 each. They hold 250 pounds of mineral lick or about 25-gallons of water.
Anything green will work in place of the kudzu. Almost anything brown will work in place of the straw. I use oak leaves mostly. I use weeds pulled from my garden and Austrian Winter peas, or red clover, for the greens. I have laying hens and rabbits for the manure. I have enough clay in my topsoil already, so I skip the clay. You can use Lime if you don't have hardwood ash. You can use charcoal ash from the grill to replace hardwood ash, (it doesn't take much). Like Chrysanthemum mentioned, you can use kitty litter for the bentonite, but read the label, I've accidentally bought kitty litter made of who knows what kind of floor sweepings, dust, tree bark, and gravel, from Walmart before. (Make sure it's not scented too).
Woodeye, I've bought bentonite clay from the lumber yard before. I use it to seal the open grain in oak cabinets and oak tables before I spray them with a polyurethane finish. I sand them down to 150 grit, apply bentonite clay by rubbing and trowling off the excess, then let it dry and hit it with some 200 grit before I apply the stain and the final finish. (Kitty litter would be cheaper though) the bentonite clay used on wood comes in a tin can with a liquid vehicle.
Crysanthemum, I used clay kitty litter here to seal a hog waller in my pig pen. It worked really well for that. I was catching rainwater runoff from the roof of the hog shed, but it would just soak into the ground, so I poured several bags of clay kitty litter into the hole the hogs had made and let them 'waller' it in. It actually sealed their waller like a little swimming pool.
I've also used clay kitty litter, water, and straw, to build a backyard kiln to fire limestone to 1,400° F. to make homemade cement as a science project for my classes at school. After I retired, I used the kiln to fire old garage sale iron skillets, and Dutch Ovens to cook off the grime and refinish them. I bake the ironware until they are a dull cherry red, about 500° F. then leave them in the kiln overnight to cool. The next morning, they look brand new again. It's kind of amazing to see that process. After I bake them, I scrub them with warm, soapy water, dry them good, re-season them by coating them with shortening and bake them in the oven at 200° for 6 hours to turn the grease into wax. That wax finish will last for years, even when left to soak in hot dish water and soap. Kitty litter has a lot of uses.
If I think mine might be too salty, I just taste it.
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Post by hmoosek on Aug 15, 2022 21:30:35 GMT -6
I haven’t had a chance to look the book over yet, it’s still zipped up in the mail package. I can tell you though, kudzu and sudex was Greek till I looked them up. I’ll have to do a lot more research. One page I looked at called it a hybrid of sorghum & Sudan. So it’s like grass???
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Post by hmoosek on Aug 15, 2022 21:33:27 GMT -6
heavyhitterokraI used a kitty litter mixture as a substitute for refractory cement by mixing wood ashes, kitty litter and sand. I lined my old homemade blacksmith forge back in the late 90’s. It worked well for a decade with just an occasional touch up.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Aug 15, 2022 21:39:50 GMT -6
I don't know what Sudex is? Sudan grass looks sort of like Johnson grass. The monastery that I trade with uses Sudan grass as a summer cover crop to rejuvenate worn-out soil. It's an invasive grass though, and is outlawed in some States.
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Post by hmoosek on Aug 15, 2022 22:18:17 GMT -6
Yes, a long time ago, it was grown around here for hay. At least I think that’s what my uncle once told me.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Aug 15, 2022 23:04:28 GMT -6
It's incredible what talents you guys have! I love reading these posts.
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Post by woodeye on Aug 15, 2022 23:10:25 GMT -6
chrysanthemum Thank you for your input. I just put that post there to start the conversation, nothing definite on my part. I just wanted to start getting ideas about what everybody with the book thinks about it, and what can be used to substitute ingredients and so forth. I should have waited until you got your book. I'm sorry I didn't. We can visit this thread and talk about it more later when we all have the book. I look forward to your thoughts on all of this, I can tell from all of your posts, past and present, that you will be a good teacher...
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Post by woodeye on Aug 15, 2022 23:16:43 GMT -6
All good ideas, heavyhitterokra and moose. Thank You for your input. Even though I try to be a good student, it takes lots of teachers to get me lined out right. That's what I wanted to do, get the ideas flowing. I just want to start with the right stuff, and with all you folks ideas on this, we can all come up with a working plan suited for us...
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Post by woodeye on Aug 15, 2022 23:28:59 GMT -6
Yeah, I saw that Sudex is a hybrid grass, sudan and sorghum are the parents. The thing I read said it hurts tomato production later on in the area in which it had been planted. Which seems odd, because the book says to use it in compost mix for tomatoes. Oh well, I don't have any of it, so I guess I won't have to worry about that.
I remember when I was a kid that the idea of having to put up with Kudzu was a frightening thing. I guess it's so invasive that it overtakes everything...
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Post by chrysanthemum on Aug 16, 2022 7:33:25 GMT -6
chrysanthemum Thank you for your input. I just put that post there to start the conversation, nothing definite on my part. I just wanted to start getting ideas about what everybody with the book thinks about it, and what can be used to substitute ingredients and so forth. I should have waited until you got your book. I'm sorry I didn't. We can visit this thread and talk about it more later when we all have the book. I look forward to your thoughts on all of this, I can tell from all of your posts, past and present, that you will be a good teacher... Discuss away, woodeye! Please don’t feel the need to wait for my book to come. Once it does, I’ll still need to find the time to read it, and since I have to put priority on my homeschooling lessons, it could take a while. heavyhitterokra and hmoosek , I had no idea that cat litter was so versatile. Woodworking? Kilns? Wow. Here I thought I was being pretty creative putting it in my garden soil and compost. I’ll have to make sure that I don’t turn either of those into cement, though. That would be a disaster. I think I’m a long way from that, though. I just looked up “allelopathy of sudangrass” and found a helpful paragraph, which I’ll link here. It does talk about stunting of crops like tomatoes and broccoli with fresh sudangrass residue, but it also says that waiting six to eight weeks leaches the harmful chemicals away. If Wilber was using hay and then composting it further, it sounds like that would give sufficient time for those compounds to break down. attra.ncat.org/will-a-sorghum-sudangrass-cover/
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Post by woodeye on Aug 16, 2022 8:47:45 GMT -6
Thanks, chrysanthemum I'll check out the link you posted for sudan.
We all hear the phrase, "it is what it is". In my case it's, "I am what I am". I'm a woodworker on a garden seed saving forum, that wants to learn how to be comfortable and confident at gardening, much like I am at woodworking. I don't know if I'll ever make it to that point in gardening, but I want to try. And that is why I'm here, I have a long way to go...
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Compost
Aug 17, 2022 12:33:42 GMT -6
Post by chrysanthemum on Aug 17, 2022 12:33:42 GMT -6
My Charles Wilber book came yesterday, and I actually had some time to read a good chunk since we’re having time off homeschooling due to sickness.
I rather loved this line: “Compost is the promise that there will be life after death” (p. 23). I had never thought of that, but it seems a good subject for meditation while making, turning, or spreading compost.
Am I correct in understanding that the additions of wood ash and colloidal clay are for their potassium (K) and phosphorus (P) values? I’m not sure at what point in the book I picked up that idea, so I can’t quote it, but I seem to have picked it up. Or am I making it up?
Here was another line that stuck out to me. “At 95 degrees for any length of time, you have a problem, especially if plants start running out of moisture” (p. 42). Well, our regular 95 degrees started in May this year (with instances in April) before most of my tomatoes hit full production. It has definitely been a problem. Thankfully I think I’ve kept most of the plants having adequate moisture to keep them alive, so I’m hoping for some production when temperatures start dropping.
The pictures of his huge tomato plants are impressive, but they give me the willies. I really don’t want to grow something that requires a ladder to pick. I am going to need one to grab my next luffa plant, though, but that’s simply because it’s in a high raised bed with a tall trellis.
My compost endeavors have been almost entirely related to finding a good use for kitchen scraps and yard waste. His compost endeavors seem very different. Lots to ponder.
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Compost
Aug 17, 2022 12:54:04 GMT -6
Post by hmoosek on Aug 17, 2022 12:54:04 GMT -6
chrysanthemumYou and me both. I have no desire to build scaffolding to pick tomatoes. Pick tomatoes from the rooftops never will I dare. I’ll pick my tomatoes sitting in a chair.
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Compost
Aug 17, 2022 12:57:41 GMT -6
Post by woodeye on Aug 17, 2022 12:57:41 GMT -6
My Charles Wilber book came yesterday, and I actually had some time to read a good chunk since we’re having time off homeschooling due to sickness. I rather loved this line: “Compost is the promise that there will be life after death” (p. 23). I had never thought of that, but it seems a good subject for meditation while making, turning, or spreading compost. Am I correct in understanding that the additions of wood ash and colloidal clay are for their potassium (K) and phosphorus (P) values? I’m not sure at what point in the book I picked up that idea, so I can’t quote it, but I seem to have picked it up. Or am I making it up? Here was another line that stuck out to me. “At 95 degrees for any length of time, you have a problem, especially if plants start running out of moisture” (p. 42). Well, our regular 95 degrees started in May this year (with instances in April) before most of my tomatoes hit full production. It has definitely been a problem. Thankfully I think I’ve kept most of the plants having adequate moisture to keep them alive, so I’m hoping more some more production when temperatures start dropping. The pictures of his huge tomato plants are impressive, but they give me the willies. I really don’t want to grow something that requires a ladder to pick. I am going to need one to grab my next luffa plant, though, but that’s simply because it’s in a high raised bed with a tall trellis. My compost endeavors have been almost entirely related to finding a good use for kitchen scraps and yard waste. His compost endeavors seem very different. Lots of ponder. chrysanthemum Yes, he said hardwood ashes from the fireplace for potassium (K) Page 31 Yes, he said colloidal clay for phosphorus (P) Page 36
Maybe I'm wrong about something that also pertains to the colloidal clay. Seems like I read somewhere that it helps keep the compost pile from drying out as fast. Right now I can't find where I read it, but will keep looking.
Found it: But not what I remembered it as being. It kinda works as a slow release type thing. "colloidal clay — An extremely fine-grained clay consisting of minute particles larger than molecules that remain suspended, rather than dissolving or settling. In the soil, the colloid holds fertility elements for release to plants and microbes." (page 123)
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Post by chrysanthemum on Aug 17, 2022 13:22:08 GMT -6
Wow, you’re good, woodeye . Thanks. The reason I’ve been adding my zeolite and bentonite clay cat litter to my garden beds and compost is for moisture- and nutrient-holding properties. That part makes sense to me (not that the K and P part doesn’t).
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