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Post by heavyhitterokra on Aug 8, 2022 21:38:02 GMT -6
Chrysanthemum, and anyone else doing composting. It doesn't take much more effort to compost a ton of stuff than it does to compost 50 pounds. The same dedication and determination applies in both cases. I'd say " You have arrived." That compost looks amazing! I just want to run my hands through it! I have a book here on composting, written by Charles Wilber, when he was in his eighties. The title is, "How to Grow World Record Tomatoes." It sells for about $15.00 on Amazon and is well worth the price. I've referenced and re-read that book several times over the years. It's amazing what a person can do with good, healthy soil. Some good weather would be nice too, but I guess we can't have everything. I'm reading the e-book right now. I thought about ordering the paperback edition, but since Kindle is a free app and I can read it on my laptop, I just got the kindle version for $6.99... Information is information, no matter how you get it delivered. E-books are just as good as anything else, just as long as you are able to understand the technique. Charles Wilber's book explained how to troubleshoot your compost pile by the way it looked, by the way it smelled, by the texture of it, by the temperature of it, by the moisture or lack of it. I really enjoy that book. And definitely, if you do what he suggests, you will get unbelievable results! I grew some fruit trees from 2-gallon bucket size to 10' feet tall by 10' feet wide in one season!
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Post by hmoosek on Aug 8, 2022 22:55:16 GMT -6
I snagged me a copy!
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Post by woodeye on Aug 9, 2022 3:50:24 GMT -6
I like the way he wrote the book. For instance, if the mainstream thought among the masses is that something won't work, he set out to find out why it wouldn't work. And then figured out how to make it work. That is very important to me.
It's just like the valuable information I learned in the book, "Carrots Love Tomatoes", by Louise Riotte. The way I see it, if I learn only one thing that changes my garden for the good, it becomes second nature to do it that way, and it's worth the purchase price of the book many times over...
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Post by hmoosek on Aug 9, 2022 13:23:50 GMT -6
I have a composting book somewhere out in the barn. I bought it, but I don’t think I ever read it. I snagged this one for cheap off fleabay. While I was at it, I snagged me another copy of square foot gardening. This is an updated version as mine (that’s lost out in the barn somewhere) was the original from back when he was on tv (circa 1990) I figured for 4 dollars why not get another. I could search out there till the cows come home and never run across it.
I believe the original formula for raised beds was 1/3 peat 1/3 compost 1/3 vermiculite
Or something like that.
I do it a little differently as I like using both compost and black cow manure. It has to come from black cows you know, as red or white cows just don’t work as well. Hahahahahaaaa!
The bed where I grew those greens was awesome. I also had beans, carrots, tomatoes too. Then the feral cats started using it as a porta potty, so I dismantled it. Grrrrrr!
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Post by chrysanthemum on Aug 9, 2022 14:28:03 GMT -6
I might have to think about getting that Kindle edition then since online used copies look a bit more expensive. I read a lot of e-books that I check out of the library when they don’t have paper copies available or when it’s just easier to get them without making a trip into town. I prefer paper books, but it’s nice to have access to information. Does the Kindle book have photographs and everything, woodeye ? I wanted to mention another ingredient for compost that I’ve used with good success: used coffee grounds. A lot of coffee shops will give them away. My husband used to work for a large company in San Antonio (they moved us down to this area for his work). There was a Starbucks in the building where he worked, and he established a relationship there with one of the workers who would save coffee grounds for him. He’d go pick them up at the end of the day. He started getting such large amounts that the worker even gave him a special little cart to carry them all to the car. We added them to compost as a green material. We used them when we built hugelkultur raised beds. We would mix them into piles of wood chips when we were taking care of brush just to help the decomposition. Sadly the company my husband worked for ended up selling off his division, and he has a different job now and no access to coffee grounds. I’m sure we could make some arrangements with local coffee shops, but since we don’t buy coffee, I’ve never gone into one of those. If you visit coffee shops, though, you might want to look into taking grounds off their hands.
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Post by woodeye on Aug 9, 2022 15:54:33 GMT -6
chrysanthemum The book has photos, they are in black in white. I suppose they are in the paperback book too. Here are 2 example pages I copied from the Kindle e-book. As far as I know, the e-book has everything that the paperback book has...OH, the photos are crooked, but that's how they are in the e-book...Lastly, I counted 103 total photos in the e-book...
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Post by chrysanthemum on Aug 10, 2022 14:36:23 GMT -6
Thank you, woodeye. I appreciate the details. It turned out that my daughter needed a couple of books to read that aren’t in our library. My husband had one on his list, too. I had a promo code to get 25% off an order of four used books, and so adding that book into my order got it for just a little less than the Kindle price. Hurray! I’ll have some reading to do in a week or so. I’m looking forward to it. My compost was measuring about 88 degrees this morning, whereas my garden beds are about 82 degrees. (This was before the sun was on them today. They would both definitely be hotter in the afternoon or evening. )I’m not sure if that’s just because it’s in a black container and doesn’t get watered every couple of days, or if it’s a sign that it’s still “cooking.” I plan to give it more time to cure before I use it. I just wanted to check on it this morning.
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Post by woodeye on Aug 11, 2022 6:26:14 GMT -6
That's great, chrysanthemum ! Once everybody gets their book, I hope that we can talk more about all his methods, & the compost ingredients he writes about. I've been researching his recipe because I'd like to try my hand at it, & most are common materials, but one or two are not so common, at least not to me. Please let us know when you get your book...
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Aug 11, 2022 9:08:26 GMT -6
You guys did good! The paperback book, "How to Grow World Record Tomatoes" has black and white photos also. The only color photo it has is the photo on the cover.
This method is a lot of work, but it's 'feel good' work, and that kind doesn't seem to be much like work at all.
The payoff is exceptional. I've not tried his composting methods on vegetables, but I've tried it on fruit trees more than once. It will cause a fruit tree to grow exponentially faster than than normal. I've had trees grow so fast that they split out of the bark, maybe to the point of being unhealthy for the tree?
As an experiment once, I planted two groups of two pawpaw trees. One group was planted in the best topsoil I had on the place, the other group was planted in an old abandoned road bed where even grass would not grow. I didn't treat the trees planted in my best topsoil. I just let nature take its course. I heavily amended the group that was planted in the old road bed.
Six months later, both of the pencil size saplings that I planted in the best top soil were about 18" to 24" inches tall, about as big around as a dime, and doing alright, but nothing to brag about. While at the same time, the two trees planted in the old road bed were 72" inches tall, about as big around as a half dollar, and going nuts with vigor!
Fast forward 10 years, and the trees growing in my best soil are maybe 10' or 12' feet tall and doing very well. One of the trees planted in the old road bed succumbed to drought back in 2011-2012, but the remaining tree is 20' feet tall and twice as big around as either of the two trees planted in good soil.
I've repeated the same experiment with peach trees and pecan trees. Each time, I've gotten very similar results. If a guy had unlimited resources to mix the required ingredients, and unlimited manpower to compost them all, he'd have an incredible amount of production. That thought makes me wish I had read this book before I worked all those years in prison. I had a garden crew there of 22 inmates. That would have been an awesome experiment to carry on there. (Except while working there I had to pick all of the fruit before it ripened and throw it away or they'd steal it to make prison hooch).
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Post by woodeye on Aug 11, 2022 9:37:24 GMT -6
That is how the e-book is too, just the book cover is color. I forgot to mention that. Man I'll tell ya' what, it's an amazing book. I've read it cover to cover twice already and parts of it half a dozen times. It's mind boggling to see how those tomato plants have grown so tall. With the balance issues that I have, you won't get to see a photo of me standing on top of a stepladder that is up on top of a 10 foot scaffold, it just ain't gonna happen. But I would be thrilled to make modest improvements on my crops. Best $6.99 I have spent in a long, long time...
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Aug 11, 2022 9:57:25 GMT -6
It's one of the very few gardening books that I have, in which I can honestly say that if you follow his methods, you'll get very similar results.
He does have a few advantages that make it possible for him to pull off a way better crop than anything we can do here in Oklahoma; mainly, the fact that he lived in Alabama. He had a growing season at least two months longer than ours. He spoke in his book of having 'Christmas tomatoes' The only tomatoes you'll see around here as late as Christmas would be the ones Santa brought you from Walmart, and those would hardly be edible.
He also had an abundance of Kudzu as a green manure crop. We don't have Kudzu available to us here, but I found that I could plant a big stand of Austrian Winter Peas and those would provide me with lots and lots of green manure, but for only a short amount of time before Summer's heat took them out. Comfrey is another good crop to grow for green manure. plus, all of the weeds that pop up in your garden every May-June.
The hardest part was coming up with both carbon and green manure simultaneously. Wheat straw is not available at the time of year that Austrian Winter peas are in full-swing (April-May).
I found a way around that by stockpiling dead leaves in the winter months, saving them up for the time when the pea vines were at their peak. If a person had a barn, they could stock pile straw in Winter, but I don't have room in my barn to do that.
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Post by hmoosek on Aug 11, 2022 19:37:09 GMT -6
I should have my book in a couple of days. Hopefully!
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Post by hmoosek on Aug 15, 2022 16:28:56 GMT -6
Mine be here! Let the games begin!
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Post by woodeye on Aug 15, 2022 17:32:56 GMT -6
Okay, good deal, glad you got your book, moose. I was reading Charles Wilber's compost recipe on page 28. He says he uses shredded green kudzu, hay consisting of kudzu and sudex coarsely ground, manure, soil, granite dust or hardwood ashes, and colloidal clay. I don't have kudzu or sudex, but he says that alfalfa can be used instead. So that part is taken care of. Manure and soil, will have that. Hardwood ashes, can make that. The last item is colloidal clay. I was not familiar with colloidal clay, but researched it a few days ago. From what I found out, it is a powdery substance that combines with water and provides holding power. There are 2 types, calcium colloidal clay, and sodium colloidal clay. From what I saw in my research, I need to use the calcium colloidal clay. (calcium bentonite clay) To further confuse the issue, it was called Bentonite Clay. That's what I found most prevalent anyway. So here is a link to some of the Bentonite Clay, and it would be good if you would also research this to make sure this is the correct clay to use. www.amazon.com/Food-Grade-Calcium-Bentonite-Clay/dp/B0744Z72G4/ref=sr_1_3?crid=3TJBBTO0CIEOE&keywords=calcium%2Bbentonite%2Bclay&qid=1660607597&sprefix=calcium%2Bbentonite%2B%2Caps%2C1643&sr=8-3&th=1
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Post by chrysanthemum on Aug 15, 2022 20:03:04 GMT -6
I haven’t received my book yet, so I’m not really qualified to comment on anything in it I think I mentioned the other day that I have in my compost pictured above about 5 pounds of clean cat litter. The brand I get is a mixture of zeolite and bentonite clay. It’s probably sodium bentonite rather than calcium, but I understand that because the sodium is bound in the clay, it’s not like I’m adding salt to the soil. I am able to get a ten pound bag at the grocery store for just a little over two dollars, and I’ve mixed it into my soil this summer to help hold moisture. I think it was especially helpful in keeping the soil moist when I planted my Red Noodle Beans and Woods Mountain Crazy Beans, though I still had to be diligent about hand watering every morning and evening for a while. The Amazon product looks like it would be fine, but maybe you can find some bentonite clay cat litter locally. I think Walmart carries some that’s pure bentonite. I wanted the zeolite in mine, but if that hadn’t been available, I would have gone for pure bentonite. I had no idea that clay was part of Charles Wilber’s compost recipe. As you know, I do use purchased alfalfa pellets and cottonseed meal from a feed mill that’s not too far away, but I do try to limit the expense of what goes into my compost. Mostly I use those directly in my soil, but they were a helpful nitrogen boost when I needed it a couple of weeks ago.. From your list above for Charles Wilber’s compost recipe, I don’t really have any of those materials easily except the hardwood ashes (though we do burn a lot of cedar in addition to live oak). I know heavyhitterokra grows Austrian winter peas as a kudzu substitute, so I actually just ordered some of those. I don’t have manure, and strangely enough I barely have soil around here. I do, however, have an abundance of oak leaves. That makes up the bulk of my compost, and then I add whatever greens I can to it to get them to start to decompose. I just seeded a bit more Sunn Hemp in my backyard cinderblock bed (where the luffa is) to help generate some more nitrogen.
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