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Post by amyinowasso on Dec 4, 2022 11:14:38 GMT -6
The big difference is the pepo stems are hollow and moschata's are not. When I grew Seminole it was a very bad year for vine borers. I had both Seminole and tromboncino. The borers couldn't get into the stem, so they attacked the leaf petioles right at the leaf. I only grow zucchini under cover and if I do, I get parthenocapic varieties. It's not been worth it to do that lately.
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Post by chrysanthemum on Dec 4, 2022 14:22:59 GMT -6
Both kinds are doing great. Is that the zucchini that the diggers dug out and you had to replant?
Also, do you know what kind of ant that is on your Seminole Pumpkin? He looks pretty big in the picture, about the size I have that visit me in my recliner once in awhile... That is the zucchini that got dug up and replanted. I started it from seed inside this summer and grew it in the house for quite a while till it got too big to do well in a pot (that was my way of protecting it against vine borers, amyinowasso, since they had taken out my earlier tries). I planted it out, and some time later it got dug up by the diggers (either skunks, raccoons, or armadillos since I’ve had all in my garden). I really wasn’t sure how it would fare with replanting. It suffered a setback, but as you can see, it has come back fairly well. I think this fruit is pollinated, but it might need warmer weather or more sunshine really to do well. The picture makes it look bigger than it is. It really wouldn’t even feed one person right now, let alone a family of six, though I would want several zucchini fruit to do that job. I do not know what type of ant it is other than that it is not a fire ant. Fire ants are a lot smaller. I didn’t actually even see this one while I was taking the picture because I was having to hold leaves out of the way and try to get the camera focused a bit on the stem. It’s funny how one can look at a picture later and see something you didn’t see earlier. (I remember that’s how I spotted my first monarch caterpillar down here in Texas. I took a picture of a flower to identify, then saw the monarch caterpillar, and that helped me realize that it was a type of milkweed. I think it happened in that order.).
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Post by triffid on Dec 4, 2022 20:00:24 GMT -6
Thanks for the link and photos chrysanthemumThose squash in my photos are long gone now. There are a few others still around as ornaments but their stems broke off. The stem bases are still there; I'll take some pictures tomorrow. The '5-angle' rule is leaving me a little stumped as I can identify the same thing on pics of both pepos and moschatas. It's likely I'm looking at the wrong part. woodeye if in your experience it behaves like moschata then I defer to your better judgement. I've grown far fewer squash! Do you favour it over the traditional yellow crookneck?
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Post by woodeye on Dec 4, 2022 20:25:05 GMT -6
Yes, triffid , I prefer it over any other yellow crookneck, or straightneck. However, I had problems with getting the seeds to germinate this year, which was unusual. By the time I planted them this year the temperatures were so hot, and I had so many other squash already producing, that I gave up on it and planted something else. I'll be honest, I haven't paid attention to the particulars of the plant and fruits as far as whether it is a pepo or Moschata. The first year I grew it, I assumed it was a pepo just like any other yellow crookneck squash. The reason I investigated way back then was to find out why it had so much better taste and texture than any other yellow crookneck or straightneck I had ever grown or eaten. That is when I read on the seed company's label that it was sold as a Moschata, and ever since then I've assumed it was.
I will pay a lot more attention to it next year. It usually makes a huge plant and the production is not always great, but in my opinion it was worth having less squash to eat, because the few that I managed to harvest were far superior to other varieties. But in conclusion, if it is a pepo, or if it is a Moschata, I'll still grow it, or attempt to grow it, just for the few squash that it produces. To me, it's that good...
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Post by woodeye on Dec 4, 2022 20:29:56 GMT -6
chrysanthemum , your zucchini plant has had a storied career, but that makes it worth the wait. Its "never say die" attitude is commendable...
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Post by triffid on Dec 10, 2022 11:01:14 GMT -6
Here is the stem end of a Friulana squash. The stem itself is no longer attached. I can make out 5 points (highlighted in 2nd image) but cannot confidently make any inferences from that observation.
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Post by chrysanthemum on Dec 10, 2022 15:48:02 GMT -6
triffid , thanks for those photos. I’m going to post a couple I took just this afternoon after seeing your message. My Seminole Pumpkin (Moschata) does have five discernible points as well but they are not as sharply angled on the stem. The stem itself is more narrow and attaches to the squash with a flare. It looks to me like your Fruilana squash has that same type of flare. My Black Beauty Zucchini (Pepo) which is supposed to have 5 sharp angles on it has four sharp angles and an amorphous mass of two additional bumps that would make me count six angles to be honest. This one was pressed against the ground, so I don’t know if that distorted it. I have a couple other females out there that are getting ready to open, so I may have another squash to check if they can get pollinated in the next couple of days. This one is a wider stem that just sort of goes directly into the plant. The flare on yours, triffid, reminds me of the Seminole attachment, but it also appears to be hollow which makes me think Pepo. I don’t know if that is just related to the stem having dried up, though. As I said earlier, I’m definitely no expert. I do find the whole question and investigation intriguing, though.
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Post by triffid on Mar 13, 2023 9:37:32 GMT -6
An update on the Friulana, which are still sitting in storage.. so surely not a pepo with that kind of shelf-life? The mature, hardened yellow crookneck started to go bad a few weeks ago, which was still a lot longer than I expected them to last. Only a month to go until sowing time comes around again!
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Post by woodeye on Mar 13, 2023 16:42:35 GMT -6
Thank you for the info, triffid. I believe you have solved the mystery...
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Post by galina on Nov 29, 2023 4:53:40 GMT -6
Friulana, Early crookneck, Early straightneck are all c pepo and variations on a theme, different selections for smoothness or bumpiness. I also had an extremely long storing one, in my case an Early Straightneck. When I finally picked it off the shelf, the fruit had fully dried, gourd like, weighed almost nothing and the seeds on the inside were rattling. I had not noticed this before I started wondering how come this one lasts for such a long time in apparently good condition. Was your Friulana still heavy in May or had it also dried internally? Best indicator for c pepo are scratchy leaves. I agree, the base of the stem is confusing for me too. Seeds are somewhat whiter too than the buff moschata seeds and mostly a bit larger. lofthouse.com/how-to-identify-squash.phtml
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Post by macmex on Nov 29, 2023 12:23:07 GMT -6
Somehow I missed this thread for a year! Wow! I concur with Galina, though that Dec 10, 2022 photo Triffid posted, did have a "moschata look" about it. Scratchy leaves and stems are a very good indicator of species (c. pepo). Some c. pepo varieties may last a good while in storage.
Another thing I find when identifying c. pepo varieties is that the stems themselves are decidedly angular compared to other species. C. Maxima is the opposite of c. pepo in that the stems are round.
I remember reading that one particular strain of yellow crookneck (cannot recall which) was bred at the University of Connecticut for greater borer resistance. They crossed it with some kind of gourd from the c. pepo species and got harder stems. This might result in a harder skin and fruit, at least when it starts to mature.
In places that these squash can be grown, I think they're great, but here, right where I live, they're not worth the space, in my opinion. Year upon year I planted them and only managed a fruit or two before the borers killed them.
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Post by triffid on Dec 1, 2023 6:52:09 GMT -6
Was your Friulana still heavy in May or had it also dried internally? Hi Galina, how nice to see you here!
I don't recall whether the Friulana made it until May, I'll have to check my notes/photos.
What I do remember is that it was not dried out, like a gourd. It was drier, yes, but still had moisture, and the skin was like waxy leather.
The yellow crookneck did become rather gourd-like, with a hard shell, but it started to rot nevertheless.
Sweet Meat Oregon Homestead (maxima) has the record for my longest-keeping squash. Harvested in early Sept 2022 and eaten on 23rd June 2023. It was perfectly intact, and judging from its condition could have kept for months longer.
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Post by galina on Dec 2, 2023 10:32:46 GMT -6
Thank you Triffid.
Interesting. Wonder whether this long storing trait would continue to the following generation. There are longer storing pepo varieties. Long Pie is one of them and Thelma Sanders too.
Yes this is at around the date when we ate our last maxima. I remember that it was after the first summer squash! Some maxima really are amazing storers. Certainly bridges the time nicely until courgettes, aka zucchini, become available again.
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