Sumac or Shumake

[chrysanthemum]

In a different thread woodeye got my attention by mentioning a plant I didn’t know.

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Sept 5, 2022 20:00:24 GMT -5 woodeye said:

I searched my pastures today, I thought surely I could find at least one Milkweed. Nope, no milkweeds this year, and no thistles this year. The mystery of the missing stuff continues.

I've still got plenty of red cedar trees, shoemakes, plum thickets, etc.
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I had to do a bit of searching to find out what “shoemakes” are, but it turns out that it’s another name for sumac.  I found this interesting article.

blindpigandtheacorn.com/shumake-and-sumac/

It’s at least a plant that I know a little but not very well.  I’m interested in it, though, for two reasons.  One, I miss fall color down here in the land of Live Oaks and Cedars.  Two, I’m interested in the edible berries.  I had no idea until a few years ago that sumac could be eaten.  A Palestinian friend introduced it to me as part of a spice blend called Za’atar, and I admit that I was scared to try it when she told me that there was sumac in it.  I’m horribly allergic to poison ivy, and I knew there was a thing called Poison Sumac.  I don’t know if we researched it or if I just trusted her and her cultural heritage to know that she wouldn’t poison me, but I tried it, had no allergic reaction, and loved it.

I think we had a discussion about it on a different thread because of my mention of growing the Syrian oregano called za’atar that gives the spice blend its name.  

My husband and I are slowly cutting down (native but invasive) cedars on our property, but in certain places we’d like to add in more trees that aren’t oak.  (Oak Wilt is not on our property, but it’s very close by, and it’s probably only a matter of time before it wipes out our beautiful trees, so we’d like to have some non oaks starting to grow.). I’ve toyed with the idea of sumac, but I also don’t want to create another native invasive problem.  I thought I’d start a thread here so that those of you with more experience of it could tell me about whether you like it, hate it, eat it, break out in a rash from looking at it, and all that sort of thing.

macmex, heavyhitterokra, I think both of you may have participated in the discussion we had on sumac in a different thread.  I just thought I’d let you know that I started a dedicated one here.

[woodeye]

chrysanthemum , shoemake is just what we always called it. I remember long ago, I found out that people also call it sumac around here, but by that time shoemake was imprinted in my mind, so I just kept calling it that. Plus, there was a teacher named Mrs. Shoemake at school when I was a kid, & knowing her, she might not think it was funny to call her Mrs. Sumac, so there's that. I also remember hearing about Poison Sumac when I was younger, so even if it was different than what I usually called shoemake, I decided early on that it didn't matter to me which was which, or what was what, because I wasn't going to eat either one anyway.

Thanks for the article, I didn't realize there is a white shoemake and a red shoemake. From the images I saw, I have red shoemake. It's about the showiest fall color I have here...

[chrysanthemum]

It sounds as though a lot of people call it shoemake. I had just never heard it myself, so it was very interesting for me to find out the name I hadn’t heard. It’s also interesting that you had a teacher named Mrs. Shoemake. I’ve heard the name Shoemaker, which I assumed came from the trade, but never the name Shoemake, which would seem to come from the tree.

Are your red shoemakes beginning to change color yet, or will that be later in the season? Do you have problems with them being invasive in the areas where they grow?

[woodeye]

Sept 12, 2022 6:04:40 GMT -6 chrysanthemum said:

It sounds as though a lot of people call it shoemake. I had just never heard it myself, so it was very interesting for me to find out the name I hadn’t heard. It’s also interesting that you had a teacher named Mrs. Shoemake. I’ve heard the name Shoemaker, which I assumed came from the trade, but never the name Shoemake, which would seem to come from the tree.

Are your red shoemakes beginning to change color yet, or will that be later in the season? Do you have problems with them being invasive in the areas where they grow?

I haven't gone out in the pasture to check the color on the shoemakes yet today, but this is a picture of the some that came back up this year. I rooted out the mother plant last year, but evidently did not do enough rooting. I note no color change yet, but with the shorter daylight hours and cooler temps, it will happen soon. They are invasive, but not nearly as invasive as blackberries and plum thickets. Those 2 are a problem here. 

Yes, Shoemaker is definitely the most prevalent surname, but there is a handful of Shoemake around...

[heavyhitterokra]

We have Staghorn Sumac here, but no one calls it "Sumac" everyone calls it "Shoe Make".

The berries are not really berries, they are velvety seeds, covered in tiny sour-tasting, acidy, red, hairs that are very similar in taste to lemon. You have to gather the berries as soon as they ripen in late July to early August to get the full effect of their tangy flavor, as any rains tend to wash the tiny hairs away, leaving a woody, dirt-tasting core behind.

When I was a kid, we were told they were poison, but they aren't. People avoided sumac like it was poison ivy, calling it, "Poison Shoemake". By the time I was twelve years old, I knew that was a lie though, as I had waded through sumac over my head and it never did anything to me.  I would gather the red, ferny leaves every Autumn as Fall decor.

I was in my late thirties before I ever saw anyone eating the berries in Summer though. After seeing that, I reluctantly tried them myself, they were very flavorful. Ever since that time, I've gathered them in late summer to make 'Indian Lemonade'.

I found a really good article describing the many varieties of Sumac, some poisonous, but not grown in our Northeastern Oklahoma region.  The article has recipes for sumac candy and sumac jelly. 

www.eattheweeds.com/sumac-more-than-just-native-lemonade/

I think what may have happened is that the Indians and other folks that migrated here from the Southeast via Trail of Tears or otherwise, carried the old knowledge with them that the plants were poisonous because poison sumac grows in the swamps of Florida and other Southern states.  Though poison sumac does not resemble staghorn sumac, I guess they were thinking "Better safe than sorry."  


When I was growing up, the 'native' Cherokees said sumac was poison, but in adulthood, the real, Native Osage Indians said it was good to eat and the leaves could even be smoked.  I was taught by an Osage that the berries were delicious. 

[macmex]

I grew up making "lemonade" with Staghorn sumac. Those who called it anything, in NJ, called it Sumac. I never heard "Shoe make" until this thread. 
Here in Oklahoma I've seen more Smooth Sumac than Staghorn. For that matter I don't believe I've made a positive identification of a Staghorn sumac yet. Fortunately, the Smooth Sumac is used just like Staghorn.

Besides "lemonade," I've heard that old timers used it to flavor pemican. I also grew up using the seed heads as smoker fuel for working bees.

Though I don't consider it invasive in any way, most sumacs, like these, do grow fast. I once read an article which said that one could heat an average home with two acres of sumac and a wood chipper. I believe they said one could cut and chip the sumac, letting it grow back each year. The chipped sumac was then used to burn in a pellet stove.

There's perpetual confusion about "poison 'sumac'" and other sumacs. As I understand, they're not even related. Poison sumac has white berries. I can see, however, how it resembles the other sumacs. Here's a good article on poison sumac.

[heavyhitterokra]

Sumac is very invasive over here. When we moved here in 2004, the land right beside my garden was a ballfield, now, it's so overgrown with sumac that you'd nearly need a bulldozer to get rid of it. It could have been managed with a brush hog a few years ago, but now it's to the point where it would be pretty tough on your equipment to reclaim it.  Sumac grows on a rhizome like burmuda grass.  We spent one entire winter here, pulling it up by the roots and burning it.