Weather Lore

[heavyhitterokra]

So far, it has dropped to 34 degrees here this morning. No frost yet, but very close to it. I woke up a little before 5:00 this morning to a 58-degree house. Our heater is on now for the first time this season. We got a good deal of rain from the squall line that Bon posted, but no severe weather or flooding, just some much-needed rain.

[heavyhitterokra]

Yep, sometimes I forget about the ground temperatures being higher than the air temperatures after a warm day. We didn't get any frost on the ground this morning, but we sure had some extra cold well water in our kitchen pipes at breakfast time. It was like drinking water straight from the icebox (nice and cold!)

Bon, that sounds like the beginning of another good thread. I'll be looking forward to reading that.

George, your story about the Osprey tied to the bedpost reminds me of myself as a kid. I once found an injured buzzard on the ground while feeding the cows after school. Being one who always tried to rescue hurt animals, I chased it down, caught it, and put it in the front seat of our '55 Chevy hay truck. By the time I got home, it was already dark, being how it was mid-winter. So, I just took it to the basement to let it warm up next to the woodstove and went about my chores. I turned off the lights before I left, so it would calm down and didn't think anything about it. Like George, I never mentioned it to my dad, who came downstairs to do something and was accosted by a wild buzzard lurking at the bottom of the staircase when he flipped the lights back on!

When the buzzard heard him scream like a little girl, it got startled and tried to fly away but couldn't because of the huge wingspan. By the time I got close enough to see what had happened, dad was already back at the top of the staircase trying to get the door to open, but couldn't get a hold of the knob because he was so scared out of his wits. Needless to say, he was not a happy camper by that time and made me go turn the buzzard loose in the dark.

I never saw the buzzard again after I set it free in our backyard, but I imagine it would have faired much better if I hadn't intervened.

[macmex]

LOL! That does sound similar! Guess it's a good thing we didn't try rescuing wild cats!

[heavyhitterokra]

What a difference between Thursday morning and this morning! Thursday morning, it was 59 degrees inside the house because it was 34 degrees outside the house and I hadn't turned the heater on yet.  Last night, I slept outside, expecting it to be that cold again and it was only 65 degrees when I woke up at 4:30 am. What a nice surprise! The high today is supposed to be 82. If it was daylight already, it would be warm enough to start shelling out okra seeds. For the past two mornings, it has been too cold to get out there much before noon. When my fingers get numb from cold, they don't tend to work very well.

This morning, it was so warm that everything worked, except my poor old, creeking back, from sleeping on the lumpy ground all night.  it sure was a beautiful night though!  It's hard to resist that wonderfully, bright, full moon out there!  I could hear geese flying North all night, taking advantage of this nice navigational light.

[chrysanthemum]

We had some colder air start blowing in overnight. It brought a few storms and three quarters inch of rain, and today is sunny and windy. It was almost too windy for kite flying, but we had a few good rounds with the kids just before lunch.








In preparation for the storms and wind I took some time yesterday to tie up my Seminole Pumpkins with an old pair of little girl tights that have been outgrown.  I don’t know if they helped, but the pumpkins survived the night.  I’ve got lots of peppers on all sorts of plants and some really nice green tomatoes that I want to see ripen.  I’m trying to figure out if I should harvest and bring them in to ripen indoors or if I can give them a little more time.  Night temperatures will be in the upper forties, but the soil is still pretty warm.

[chrysanthemum]

Oct 27, 2021 17:46:49 GMT -6 @bon said:

No expert but whether to bring them in or not depends how close real winter might be in your area. Might be worth trying to cover them up overnight?

Winter is real close for me as you prob already know. Those plants and fruit look really happy!

We refer to ourselves as having moved to “the land of very little winter.”  Really summer is just winding down about now.  There are no freezes anywhere in the forecast, though we have had them hit in October before.  I think I’m going to leave the tomatoes and peppers for a while.  We’re just having a few cooler nights in the forecast, but it’s still seventies and sunny during the days.  I’ll keep watching the minimum temperature on the outdoor thermometer, though, to see how we do in actuality compared to the forecast.  Last night we were warmer.

The plants do still look happy, but with the sun angle changing they are really slowing down now.  I’m pleased with how well they’ve done, though.

[chrysanthemum]

Oct 28, 2021 14:20:24 GMT -6 @bon said:

Need some advice. As you can imagine I have more tree trash. Poplar tree fell over onto garden.

Going to do what I always do:. Do everything I can until the Lord steps in. I will need a chain saw and Bill acts as if it is a bad idea for me to handle it.

Can have my son watch scores of safety and how to videos and Bill supervise while he's running it?

I never balk at breaking down trees starting with the tips to the trunk but still looking at major limbs and trunks from last winter's polar vortex.

Not to mention the setback in the garden.

We had been double digging and there was an open pit. Fortunately, I had the mind to fill that out and level the bed. The tree fell right on top (and it's difficult to move a pile of dirt after hard rains)

Life goes on.

You know your son better than we do, of course, but it sounds like he has the size and strength.  I don’t know about the wisdom or maturity.  I grew up seeing my mom handle a chainsaw, and she still works with one now at the age of 85.  (It’s part of the reason I call her every night to make sure that she’s safely back in the house.). 

My husband learned how to operate a chainsaw only in the last decade or so.  I find good safety videos for him, and he watches and rewatches if it has been a while.  He also uses a forestry helmet with a face shield and ear protection as well as chaps.  He doesn’t do too much sawing in the summer for that reason as it’s just too hot.  We also try to have him saw only with me around to call 911 if necessary.  Thankfully he’s not had close calls despite untold hours at this point working with a saw, but he worked up slowly to felling trees, and we still only do small ones.  I do sawing with an electric pole saw or a smaller saw, but I can’t handle the big gas powered chainsaw that he inherited from my mother when she needed to move to an easier starting, smaller one.

One thing to consider is how much stress is on the tree.  I know you said it fell, but is it hung up?  Would sawing from the top possible cause it stand again (if roots are still partially in the ground)?  If it was completely dead, I know tulip poplar can be pretty brittle and break when being cut.

I am not the expert that I’m sure macmex and heavyhitterokra are on clearing trees, but maybe if you can take a couple of pictures and post them, someone could point out if they see any particular areas for concern or danger.

[macmex]

Bon, I learned to use a chainsaw when I was 22 and had to relearn at 40, because we lived outside the US for a while and I didn't remember.
Chainsaws and trees are really tricky. Last winter I got clocked on the head by several hundred pounds of tree limb when a downed tree decided to flip over, and I was cutting on it. It would be great for your son to learn, for sure. But I'd highly recommend that you get an experienced person to coach him.

Also, there are details like not even touching the soil with the moving chain. One touch and poof! You've lost your cutting edge and the saw won't work well until sharpened.

I sure wish I lived nearby!!!

Rachel's husband is VERY wise for using the protective gear!

Here's a link What does Your Chainsaw Have in Common with Your Toothbrush?

[macmex]

Sounds like Bill knows chainsaws and can oversee your son. Yes, it is GOOD for a young man to take on these challenges. I taught a 16 year old friend how to use a chainsaw last spring. He did really well and then, when we traveled I paid him REALLY well to care for the place while we were away. I think he used the money to buy 1) a puppy (he's always wanted a dog) and 2) a chainsaw!

[heavyhitterokra]

Starting off with an ax is wise. Do you have a bucksaw? A good bucksaw will cut almost anything under a foot in diameter with a little persistence. We've used bucksaws a lot.  I probably cut my first tree with a bucksaw before Kindergarten.  We used to cut our own Christmas trees from the cedar woods and drag them home.

My dad had me cutting wood with a chainsaw since I was probably around 14 years old. No one knew what safety was back then, he just handed it to me, because he didn't like crawling around on his hands and knees getting his pants dirty felling trees. Before that, we had a brush saw, which was a Briggs Stratton engine that powered an 18" inch circular saw blade by way of a belt and a couple of pulleys.  It looked sort of like a garden tiller with a big circular blade on the front.

To fell a tree with it, you positioned the blade parallel with the ground and pushed it against the tree trunk. To cut up firewood, you positioned the blade perpendicular to the ground and used a chopping motion on the fallen tree, or else fed wood directly into the blade while someone grabbed it by the handle bars and held the blade off the ground.

Personally, I think the chainsaw was a much, much, safer way to go. We cleared several acres of pasture land, using nothing more than the brush saw and a forked push pole to keep trees from falling on the operator. We didn't get a chainsaw until around 1973. We didn't get safety glasses until around 1980.

I think safety glasses are a must, if using a chainsaw. I've had hunks of wood hit my eyes so hard that they made me see flashes of light. Who knows how no one went blind before we ever used safety glasses. I don't think anyone used those much before OSHA got big in the late '70s. I don't remember ever seeing any safety glasses before I was in high school. Then, they were only used in shop class, while grinding or chipping slag. No one had a pair at home back then.

With the brush saw, we had several trees falling into standing timber.  The best way to handle that problem is to pull the fallen tree away by the trunk end, letting the weight of it slide along the ground as it skids away from the standing timber.  If it's a small tree, you can do this by hand, by grabbing it at the base, lifting, and running like heck away from the standing timber.  If it's too heavy to lift by the trunk, use a log chain and a truck, or a tractor.  (A come along will work in a tight situation).  Sometimes, you have to cut the fallen tree in two, near the center of the sway when it is hung up in standing timber, but be very aware that the top of the fallen tree that you are cutting can swing back to the standing timber, stand on end, and then still have the potential of falling on you.  So never look away until every last bit of intertia is gone.

Like George said, "It's really important to keep the tip of the chain out of the soil. One touch on the ground will ruin a good, sharp chain. A sharp chain is a gift from above when cutting wood, especially dead wood.

Your son will appreciate the experience when he's a grown man.  He'll be glad you taught him in his youth, rather than him having to figure it out on his own in latter years.  To me, using a chainsaw is probably akin to other kids using a bicycle.  We used one so often in years past that it just became second nature.  Dad had 210 acres, about 70 acres of that was heavily wooded.  My brothers and I cleared all of it with chainsaws at a rate of about 3 acres per wood cutting season.  

Dad had a huge house with a 42" inch fireplace.  His hearth was 2' feet high, so the fire was at eye level while sitting in his recliner.  The hearth was so high there were two steps leading up to the opening of the firebox.  His chimney was about 10' or 12' feet wide and 16' feet tall on the inside of his livingroom.  We burned about 20 ricks of wood per year.  He never got central heat and air until all of us kids had married off and moved away.  I remember loading backlogs into that fireplace that took two grown men to pickup and roll over the dog irons.  The dog irons were made of two railroad irons with doubled horse shoes welded back to back because the huge logs we used had flattened the old single horse shoes by the time I was old enough to weld.

Felling a tree is the most dangerous part.  Once it's on the ground, it's not so bad.  When felling one, you have to be ready to run for your life at any moment.  Never let things lay in the way of your escape route.  Always have in mind where your first few steps will be in any situation.  Always be on the look out for spring back.  A large tree, say a foot or more in diameter has a large potential of splitting along the trunk and bucking back off the stump toward the tree feller.  I've had a few buck back as far as 5' feet. 

Once the tree is on thre ground, it's important to learn and be able to recognise stress points.  If a limb is hanging down from the trunk, unsupported, it can splinter upward while you're cutting it.  If the tip end of it is laying on the ground, it can spring downward, pinching your saw blade and binding it until you'll need a second saw or an ax to cut it free.  

Like Bon said, always start at the far end of the longest limbs and cut little by little toward the trunk. Cut each limb as you go, rather than following a single limb back to the trunk.  That's how roll overs can happen.  Try to avoid any situation where there is any kind of limb above you while you are cutting.  If there is a limb above you, bag off of the one you are working on, and work on that limb that is above, clearing it away from the tip of the limb, all the way back to where you were stading when it was above you.  Try to keep all of your limbs nearly the same length.

When choosing a limb to work or first, try to cut the highest one first.  Sometimes, it's not really practical to do that, espescially when cutting huge trees.  Some of the limbs might be so high at the ends that you can't even reach them.  Sometimes, you have to go back to the trunk and cut those limbes free, letting them fall to the ground.  Always keep in mind that dropping higher limbs onto lower limbs creates lots of potential stress points.  You'll not only have the weight of the limb you dropped, creating extra stress points, but you'll have the limbs below it pushing upward toward you.  (That's a good way to get some broken teeth).  Dead wood is not nearly so dangerous as live wood.  Most of the dead wood loses its stress when it falls.  Green wood stores energy with the potential for springback.  Although, dead wood has hazards of its own, by way of breaking unexpectedly. 

When cutting live wood, watch for any limbs that got doubled back under in a 'U' shape when the tree fell.  Those are espescially tricky.  Really, there are way too many factors to consider all at once to be giving any really good advise by written word.  The best way to learn is by doing.  Start with smaller trees and learn from them as you go bigger. Every tree poses different challeges.  Most of it is just common sense and a little physics. 

Best of luck.  I kind of wish I was there.  I enjoy cutting wood.  It's really theraputic, espescially if you have a woodstove, so your mind knows you are putting things away for winter.

I guess I'd better go.  After last night's storm, I have a big, dead cherry tree hung up in the top of an old oak tree, hanging over my wooden footbridge.  I'm going to attempt to use three log chains hooked end to end, hooked to my tractor, on the opposite side of the creek to pull the top of it away from falling on my footbridge.  I know, that is just the opposite of what I said to do when a tree falls into standing timber, but this one is so large that the rootball would be impossible for the tractor to pull.  Since it's dead, I'm going to attempt to break it in half, using the tractor to pull the log chains.  Good thing I have several lengths of chain.  I'll be too far away for it to hit me.  After it's on the ground, I'll get my son to help me cut it up.  When this rain dries up, we'll have plenty of weiner roasting wood to last us into next summer.  That will come in handy if we ever get anymore decent weather to spend an evening enjoying a good hotdog around the campfire. 

[heavyhitterokra]

Bon,

I'm glad to hear you are getting a good start on the felled trees.  Persistance pays off.  A liitle bit every day really adds up over time.  One of my boys has an electric chainsaw. I never would have bought one myself, but after using it, I now see the merit of having one around. No more than I use a chainsaw nowadays since asthma made me unable to burn wood, an electric chainsaw would be nice. (It starts every time!) No gasoline to get old from sitting around in the shop unused for a couple of years either! And when the chain is sharp, it cuts every bit as good as a gasoline-powered saw.  It's quite too ...  That part was really nice, after years of hearing a gas powered chainsaw blaring in the woods.

I use an electric Sawzall to cut sprouts out of the chainlink fence rows where a chainsaw might get a person in a bind.

[heavyhitterokra]

No worry, Bon, it just spiced up the weather thread a little bit. After all, the weather is what caused us to have to spend the last few days clearing out the fallen timber.  A weiner roast is a good way to enjoy the fruit of your labor on a cold Autumn evening when the nice warm fire feels so inviting.  By the way, I got that big, dead, cherry tree down out of the oak tree without it hitting my wooden footbridge.  That tree was a lot tougher than I thought it was gonna be. It put up a pretty good fight, but I was finally able to break it in half using the log chains.

[heavyhitterokra]

Northeast Oklahoma

!Freeze Warning!

Did anyone see the weather forecast for Northeastern Oklahoma this coming week?

Thursday night, November 4th - Friday morning, November 5th, they are saying we have a freeze coming.  If anyone has Peppers, Tomatoes, or Roselle to pick, they had probably better get those harvested soon. 

This has been a fairly mild October so far.  It has been several years since the first freeze waited until November to show its face.  That ought to help some of you all out there on hay usage a little bit, as the pastures have had a few extra days to dwindle before a killing frost.  

However, I was driving out toward Oaks this week and noticed those folks over there were hit a lot harder by the drought than we were over here.  Grass out that way is pretty scarce already.  We were still mowing over here a week ago.

That drought killed my Fall cover crop though.  I'll have to replant every bit of that.  Even the turnips died. Oh well, there's still time I think, before it gets too cold for a cover crop to take hold.

[heavyhitterokra]

Just a note for posterity:

We got a freeze here on the morning of November 6th. It wasn't severe enough to kill the grass or to take leaves off the trees, but it was bad enough to wilt the leaves and calyces off of my Roselle bushes. November 6th is the latest we've had a first frost in many years. My animals are enjoying the extra grazing time before winter takes the green grasses away until next Spring.

[macmex]

Just a couple miles from you, Ron, my thermometers told me that we got down to 31 F. I woke up to a white blanket of frost in much of the property. Still, most of my beans keep on going. They seemed to shrug it off. Roselle didn't. I have to harvest the calyxes a.s.a.p.. One more night like that and I'll lose the calyxes. y roselle lost most of its leaves.




Most of my okra looks blasted though any tender pods on the plants were still okay. It felt strange to stand out in the garden and snack on tender okra pods after all this cold weather! Stewarts Zeebest hasn't had any pods to offer for weeks now but AfricanX does. One plant, in particular even escaped frost damage. It even had a flower or two open!