Fish Peppers

[chrysanthemum]

Last summer when we were expanding our garden in preparation for the fall season, my oldest child expressed an interest in having a bed of her own devoted to pickling.  (When the children were very young and we lived in a different spot, they each had a three by three bed where they got to pick something to plant.  I still have some seeds from those choices, and we are growing some of them this summer.).  She wanted to plant several varieties of hot pepper, some cucumbers, and dill.


We had not grown hot peppers before, but we live in a good climate for it, so I budgeted for choosing three packs of seed.  Together we chose a slightly hot banana pepper, a purple jalapeño (my other daughter was going for purple vegetables for her theme), and fish pepper.  We were attracted to the appearance of the fish pepper, but it also had a neat story behind it that appealed to us.

www.motherearthnews.com/organic-gardening/fish-pepper-zmaz09amzraw 

Our dill didn’t make it past the seedling stage as it didn’t like our heat and drought, and summer went extra long last year.  Our cucumbers got such a bad infestation of thrips, that I eventually pulled them out, but our three pepper plants all did well.  The fish pepper was our slowest to grow and the least prolific, but we enjoyed it so much, that it will be a regular in our rotation.  We loved its pretty foliage, and we really enjoyed using the peppers themselves.  They were hot for us, though, maybe similar to a serrano.  Unfortunately the last of our peppers were in a jar of fish pepper vinegar that had an unfortunate collision with our tile floor, so we have to wait to enjoy more.

We tried to overwinter the one fish pepper plant we had, but it didn’t survive.  We did, however, start another one inside on the last day of November.  It got attacked by aphids this spring, but I think that’s under control now, and it’s living in a pot on our front porch.  It’s a small plant even when not in a container.  It hasn’t set fruit yet, but it does have a new round of blossoms, so I’m hopeful that it will.  We have another couple much younger ones that I just transplanted to the garden last week.
 



My next door neighbors don’t grow from seed, but they do a great job with tomatoes and peppers in their garden. I grew a few tomatoes for them this spring and gave them a fish pepper as well.

I know peppers cross very easily, so I haven’t tried saving any seeds from them.  Fish pepper is one where I might go to some extra lengths to learn to do it in the future, though.

(I think I have a picture somewhere of my last pepper harvest last Thanksgiving.  If I can locate it, I’ll see if I can add it to this thread.)

Okay.  Found it.  The fish peppers are the small ones in the lower right corner.  The peppers did ripen to red in my pantry.

[macmex]

I believe all the peppers you mentioned are c. annums, so they'll cross very easily. Some crossing is possible between species, though I have never experienced it. I try to grow a grouping of about 6 plants of the same variety and not have another of the same species within about 100 ft. That distance is kind of arbitrary. I suppose crossing could occur even with that distance, but my suspicion is that it's a pretty good distance, especially if the peppers are in block plantings. 

I rarely grow two of the same species closer than 100' apart and often give them 300'. Rarely do I grow more than 1 of a species, though occasionally I grow two c. annums.

One way to get some isolation is to grow a variety in an ornamental bed, away from the vegetable garden. For instance, I'll probably do a planting in a flower garden at work. They look great there and there won't be another pepper plant within 1/2 a mile.

Great history on the fish pepper. I bet the author is right about companies beginning to sell inferior seed. 

[chrysanthemum]

Thank you, Macmex, for those details on crossing and seed saving.  You’re right that all my peppers are capsicum annuum, and I grow sweet peppers as well.  I don’t think I’ve ever grown a pepper that isn’t an annuum in fact.  Last year was our first attempt at hot peppers, and we were more successful with those than with sweets.


Your mention of putting a pepper in an ornamental garden has got me thinking.  I have my front porch experiment this year, but it has several different peppers there.  I could move the fish pepper to a more isolated spot, though.  The biggest issue would probably be that if I put it somewhere other than the main garden or the front porch, it would be very easy for me to neglect to give it enough water.  It’s amazing how quickly things dry out here.  I’m toying with the idea of putting it in my blueberry cube on the north side of the house though (probably still within a hundred feet of the garden, but there’s a big shed somewhat in the way). 

I also read some of the other posts that deal with seed saving, and Glen put up a video where someone isolates a branch of a pepper plant using a paint strainer bag.  I think a 5 gallon bag like that could fit over an entire little plant.  I have some smaller bags that I could use for branches if I have any that are whole.  (I used them last year to try to protect fruit from squirrels.  It was not a success.)

My seed saving goals for this year were really only for okra and pole beans, but even if I don’t save peppers seeds this year, it’s good for me to think about it for the future.  

[macmex]

Glen is our community specialist on peppers, for sure. I'm sure the mesh bag would work fine. Back in 2012 my brother Pete splurged and purchase about a dozen varieties of c. chinense peppers from ChilePlants.com . He planted them all in a long narrow garden in his back yard. That fall I visited, just after the harvest was ending. I had the pleasure of going up the entire row, trying each kind of pepper. I decided that my favorite was Aií Yellow #2, which I've been calling Murupi Amarela (long story). I wrapped three pods in a napkin and carried them home with me on the plane. I saved seed and planted a patch of about a dozen plants in 2013 and found several plants which had obviously crossed with an habanero. Every plant produced great tasting peppers but I decided to select back to pure Aií Yellow #2. I saved seed from plants which had the correct style fruit and were not directly adjacent to the crosses. The following year, and every year since, I've had all plants which show the correct type. So, if one decides to save seed and has less than optimum circumstances, I encourage it. Just cull off types and try for better isolation in the future. 

Incidentally, it has been my experience that the c. chinense varieties do much better in our hot conditions than do c. annum.

[chrysanthemum]

My mother saves bean and squash seeds and ends up with some interesting crosses, but she grows what she grows and enjoys it.  I’m not sure if she ever selects back to something original or not.  I’ll have to ask.  I know I helped her find seed for some horticultural beans this year because she didn’t have any of her own.

Macmex, your comment about having better success with chinense peppers intrigues me.  Do they just do better in the heat?  I sure have plenty of that.  I’ve never grown them, primarily because we have only in the past year reintroduced spicy foods into our diet because of food sensitivities in the family.  (Even sweet peppers were eliminated for years.)  I personally think habaneros are delicious, but I have much more need for sweet snacking type peppers in order to feed my kids.  This year I’m trying shishito peppers on a recommendation from a gardening friend; her kids apparently loved them.  Maybe I need to look into those “no heat habaneros” I’ve seen advertised to try a chinense variety.  

I’ve heard that the pepper that does the best around here is a little tiny chiltepin.  It apparently grows wild and can live for several years.  I’ve thought about trying to plant it just as a landscape plant.  That’s one of those thoughts I keep in the back of my mind, but I’m not really acting on it at the moment.

I noticed today that a few of my peppers plants may be starting tiny buds.  My garden is starting to get a bit more full with potatoes, peppers, cucumbers, and pole beans all in now.

[macmex]

My daughter in Alaska introduced me to Shishito peppers last month. I have to say I enjoy them, though they hardly have any heat. They make a fine vegetable.

C. chinense species peppers seem to handle extreme heat and high humidity better than most c. anuum peppers. They appear to be more resistant to pests, virus' and fungi. 

The Chiltepin should have a lot of resistance to most everything in your area if it grows wild there. I've grown them here and had no problem with them. Seen them growing wild in Edinburg, Texas (McAllen area) where they would volunteer and live for years. I like the salsa made from them too. It's quite hot and "hits you" right up front. C. chinense varieties generally let you "swallow hook, line and sinker before they HIT you."

The Las Tablas Ajicito pepper which Glen sent us is a c. chinense and it grew here, literally like a weed. The peppers are gorgeous and not at all hot. So, not all c. chinense are hot.
 

[chrysanthemum]

Thanks for the endorsement of Shishito peppers as a fine vegetable.  That’s really what I’m looking for.  I’ve never eaten them but am growing them at the recommendation of a friend.

Your statement of the Las Tablas Ajicito Pepper growing like a weed for you really peaks my interest, especially as I just read in the thread you linked that it doesn’t have any heat, just sweet.  Thanks for putting in that link.  We grew what was supposed to be a very mild banana pepper in the fall, but in our heat and drought, it turned out to be hotter than my kids wanted for pickled peppers.  (I loved them!)  A “just sweet” capsicum chinense that grows like a weed and can handle extreme heat and keeps producing sounds like the pepper of my dreams.  (At least some of my dreams as I do enjoy spice, but I really want a prolific sweet snacking peppers for feeding hungry children with hummus or another healthful dip.)

[glen]

Hello everyone. I have been on hiatus from the forum due to some health issues. I am feeling better now. As far as Ajicito goes. That is a catch all name for all sweet chili peppers that come from the Capsicum Chinense family. The variety that George has is just one variety that I sent. I tried to send other variety's but the USDA and Customs and Homeland security confiscated all the envelopes I sent. I just received another in the mail as a return. I had sent that envelope many months ago. If you are interested in this variety Georges is excellent. There are plenty of photo's on the pepper section of the forum. I have 4 or 5 different variety's outside growing in pots. They live several years for me here in Panama. They grow exactly like hot chinense variety's except that they are sweet chili's. They are heat tolerant plus they bloom and set fruit in the heat just like Hot chili's. The Chinense family of chili's are excellent and much easier to grow than annuum peppers. The main usage for sweet chili's is for making sofrito. I suggest that you google sofrito to find recipe's. To make authentic sofrito you need ajicito. These peppers are sweet but they have a richer flavor than normal sweet peppers. Sofrito is a spicey mixture of chopped sweet peppers and other spices that you make in advance. Then, you mix it in your bean recipes and your soups and stews. I also wanted to mention that there are ajicito variety's that are slightly spicey. I mean, low level spicey for people that like just a little bit of pizzazz in their recipes. Also, if you do some looking around you can find ajicito variety's offered by seed company's. I have one in the yard that someone sent me that was obtained from Baker Creek Seed. There are probably hundreds of different versions. Don't waste your time growing bell peppers. That's the worst pepper you can grow. Grow ajicito. Just a lot better pepper for the average back yard grower. You will get a lot of peppers and have more fun.

[macmex]

Glad to have you back and posting, Glen! You're our "chile specialist!"

[chrysanthemum]

Macmex was kind enough to send me a good number of Las Tablas Dwarf Ajicito pepper seeds (as well as Heidi tomato seeds). I’ve have just started ten pepper seeds, and I am very excited to try growing out my first capsicum chinense species.

I had to make a trip to town over the weekend to a big box store for a plumbing repair project.  While I was there I picked up a pack of two five-gallon paint strainers for about the cost of one commercial seed packet.  I figure if that helps me save pure seeds from two varieties of plant, I’m coming out ahead.  I have a fish pepper in the garden selected to cover.  I’m hoping to make a cloche-shaped frame out of wire (I have a partial roll left from making hoops for frost cloth) to keep the mesh bag off the leaves of the plant.  There are some tiny buds on the plant.

[glen]

Bon, make sure and keep us advised on how those plants come along Bon. Glad you are trying them out. Please google sofrito and try that recipe Bon. I made some quite awhile back and froze it. Whenever you make beans or soup or stew you break off a chunk of frozen sofrito and throw it in the pot to spice up whatever you are making. Remember, sofrito is the primary way ajicito is used in the Latino world. Once you try it you will know why? Its delicious. Its like a homemade bullion cube.

[heavyhitterokra]

Glen,

That Sofrito sounds like some good stuff!

That's how I use the stuff that's leftover from making Sriracha each year. I freeze the mash after I drain the pepper sauce out of it and use it to season beans, soups, garden pizza and chili.

I found a Sofrito recipe today. Is this the same stuff you were telling us about?

Ingredients
2 medium Spanish onions, cut into large chunks (about 2 cups)
4 cubanelle peppers, stemmed, seeded, and cut into large chunks (about 2 cups)
18 medium cloves garlic, peeled
1 large bunch cilantro, washed and roughly chopped (about 1 1/2 cups)
8 ajices dulces (see note)
4 leaves of culantro (see note)
4 ripe plum tomatoes, cored and cut into chunks (about 1 1/2 cups)
1 large red bell pepper, cored, seeded, and roughly chopped (about 1 1/2 cups)
Kosher salt (optional)

Directions
1.
Place onions and cubanelle peppers in work bowl of a food processor fitted with a steel blade. Pulse until coarsely chopped.

2.
With the motor running, add the remaining ingredients one at a time through the feed tube and process until smooth. Season to taste with salt. Transfer to container and store in the refrigerator for up to three days, or freeze.

(Notes)
Don't sweat it if you can't find culantro and ajices dulces. The ajices dulces can be omitted, and just substitute another handful of cilantro if you can't find culantro.


I've been cooking a big pot of brown beans and ham bones all day long.  I let them soak all night, then put them on to boil at 7:00 am this morning.  I've been stirring them every 20 minutes and adding water as they simmered down.  I just now took up a piping hot bowl of them to go with my wild onion and skillet cornbread.  Too bad you're not in the area today, I'd have you over for supper.

[chrysanthemum]

I just had to look up American goulash. It’s what my mom used to cook for us when we were little, but she used to call it Hungarian goulash, I believe. When I told me husband about it, he just laughed. American goulash is certainly a better name for it, but I’d just not heard it before.

My father-in-law grew up in Hungary and escaped to Germany as a teenager with his family just after World War II. They came to America in the 50’s. I loved it when he used to cook Hungarian gulyas and paprikas when I’d visit. That was my introduction to real Hungarian goulash.

[heavyhitterokra]

Wow! Bon. That goulash sounds good!

I was just sitting here thinking, "What would be good for supper?" About that time, I read your pepper post. You might have made up my mind for me. 

When I was a kid, back in the '60s, and '70s, they called it Hungarian Goulash too.  It would show up at nearly every Church dinner and family get together.  It was a really popular dish and was a thing that could go toward feeding a lot of people.  (My grandma had 12 kids of her own, plus one that belonged to my grandpa from a previous marriage).  His first wife died during the 1918 Flu Pandemic; he married grandma the following year.  Because of that, we always had big family get togethers. 

Now, that my Mom, my Grandma, and all my Aunts have passed on, no one makes that dish anymore.  My wife doesn't like it, so I hardly ever make it here.  I miss it, for the memories that it conjures. There's still hope though; I have a Daughter-in-Law who loves it and always encourages me to bring some with me to family functions. 

Do you have a recipe you'd like to share?  Or do you do like me and just 'wing it' every time?  To me, recipes are only vague suggestions.  I use them to get my main ingredients together, then who knows what goes on from there?

  Thanks, for the memories! 

[chrysanthemum]

I spent a little too much time outside in the heat today, and I’m feeling it tonight.  I did want to share a picture I took this afternoon of a couple of different fish peppers. The one sitting on the grape leaves is how I think these peppers are supposed to look before they ripen to red.  The green one is from a different plant that exhibits much less of the albinism trait, though it is still present.  It doesn’t show in the photo, but the green still has some variation from lighter to darker.  It’s interesting, though, how different the two plants are in terms of both foliage and fruit.  I wouldn’t want to save seeds from the greener one.  



I started fermenting two half gallons of pickles today, and these peppers were picked to add some spice to the jars. I’ve been using hot banana pepper in my other batches, but I wanted to see how fish works out.