|
Post by hedgeapple on Apr 10, 2021 7:43:59 GMT -6
This year I'll be turning over some space to the Whidby White variety restoration project that the Utopian Seed Project has going on. This old white okra variety has been grown out for a few years by Chris Smith, author of The Whole Okra, which prominently features our friend and okra mentor Ron Cook. 😊 You can read about it here: theutopianseedproject.org/the-trials/exploring-varietal-diversity-in-southern-crops/okra/whidley-white-okra-a-community-seed-selection-project/This will be the first time I've put my love of all things okra to good use outside of my own gardening experiments and pantry/freezer. Fun stuff! For those of you who don't know me (all of you), this forum still lists me as a new member, but I've been reading and occasionally posting here for a few years. I grew up primarily in Northeastern, OK and most of my family is still there. Due to the nature of my employment I've moved around quite a bit, but have kept backyard gardens and grown okra in Texas, Arkansas, and now Virginia. A few years ago I was able to share some Heavy Hitter seeds with a friend in Tulsa and he still raves about the variety when he grows it out each year.
|
|
|
Post by rdback on Apr 10, 2021 9:36:52 GMT -6
Sounds like a great project to get involved with! How many plants are you going to grow?
Best of luck - keep us posted on your progress.
|
|
|
Post by heavyhitterokra on Apr 10, 2021 10:36:24 GMT -6
That was a very interesting article. Thanks, for posting that link.
I've never come across a white pod before. Reading this makes me wish I wasn't growing Heavy Hitter exclusively, it would be a lot of fun growing out a few Whidby Whites and selecting seeds for the pale genetics.
|
|
|
Post by hedgeapple on Apr 10, 2021 11:05:41 GMT -6
For the project they ask you to grow at least 10 plants, but I'll probably grow 20-25 to increase the odds that I'll find some genetics of interest. Being that okra has perfect flowers it should be no issue for me to grow them near my other variety, because I'll be bagging the flowers from the palest plants the day before they open. Based on all the factors I look for, I usually know which plants I'm saving seeds from long before the final pods set.
Have always loved the fat podded okras for pickling specifically. They look nice in a jar. Who knows, maybe I'll find something interesting?
|
|
|
Post by heavyhitterokra on Apr 10, 2021 12:52:44 GMT -6
I've had years while developing Heavy Hitter Okra that I didn't find a single mutation in a hundred plants. That's the main reason I started growing so much of it.
Out of 1,500 plants, I'd find at least a dozen or so decent selections for the following year. With each successive generation of plants, I'd find a higher percentage of mutations, until I finally got a majority of the plants to carry the gene I was looking for, but it took a number of years.
Sounds like you guys are about to have some fun, looking for the 'Great White Okra' I envy that. That is the sort of thing that makes gardening enjoyable.
|
|
|
Post by macmex on Apr 11, 2021 5:11:09 GMT -6
This is so heartening! We could use many more people who would dedicate the space, work and time to select and improve vegetable varieties. Whidby White reminds me of my old friend, Pete's love of White Velvet.
|
|
|
Post by chrysanthemum on Apr 11, 2021 14:56:27 GMT -6
Please do keep us updated about the project, hedgeapple. I’d love to see photos of the plants and pods as they grow.
|
|
|
Post by hedgeapple on Apr 14, 2021 18:46:48 GMT -6
Just received a confirmation e-mail that the Whidby White is on the way. 260 people are growing them out this year. That's amazing!
|
|
|
Post by chrysanthemum on Apr 14, 2021 20:36:32 GMT -6
That’s very exciting news, both that the seeds are on their way, but especially that so many people will be participating in the project.
I was rereading some earlier posts, and you refer to your other variety of okra, and mention that you like fat pods for pickling. I’m wondering what variety you grow.
I grew for the first time last year Texas Hill Country Red Okra, and it had nice thick pods. (I figured I had better try that down here on the edge of Texas Hill Country, though ironically I couldn’t find it locally and had to order it from my home state of Virginia.) It was also a very attractive plant. I didn’t pickle any of the pods, but it was great for sautéing and frying. This year I’m going to try Heavy Hitter to see if I can get more okra in my small space. I’m going to do just one variety at a time.
|
|
|
Post by macmex on Apr 15, 2021 3:43:02 GMT -6
260 growers all working on growing a selecting this okra is wonderful!
|
|
|
Post by hedgeapple on Apr 15, 2021 6:07:38 GMT -6
I was rereading some earlier posts, and you refer to your other variety of okra, and mention that you like fat pods for pickling.  I’m wondering what variety you grow. I grew for the first time last year Texas Hill Country Red Okra, and it had nice thick pods. My other "variety" of okra is really just a crossbreeding/selection experiment I've been toying with for several years. The eventual goal is a fat podded landrace, mostly green with a little blush - for personal use only. Just a "family okra." I am a huge fan of Hill Country Red and it is one of the varieties that I have bred into my own okra. I believe I got my original Hill Country Red seeds from Southern Exposure Seed Exchange(?) and it did fantastically well in my garden near Austin, TX. In fact, my son near Austin is growing his own patch of HCR right now. In terms of flavor, HCR is high on my list.
|
|
|
Post by heavyhitterokra on Apr 15, 2021 7:38:27 GMT -6
You can look into the blossoms of an okra plant to see how many seed chambers they will have by counting the lobes on the stigma. (the velvety purple part in the center of the blossom). That's probably one of the best indicators for selecting specimens for 'fatter' pods. The more seed chambers the better if you're looking for fatter pods.
I've seen a few with as many as 10 seed chambers. I selected my Heavy Hitter pods to have 8 chambers, though when I sold seeds to a seed company in India, they stated that they preferred 5 chambers instead, and so, they have spent the next several years trying to undo what I did, by re-selecting for 5 chambers.
You can never make everyone happy. I prefer 8 chambers, so that the pods don't look deformed, but there is still enough meat there to feel like there is more than just breading in your plate of fried okra. Of course, with something like pickles, there might be a different need. I like to pickle my pods at 2" inches or shorter. With pods that short, more seed chambers are needed to flesh them out somewhat. I can see how a fatter pod would play well in that situation.
Keep up the good work! I love reading about your selections.
|
|
|
Post by hedgeapple on Apr 15, 2021 9:14:04 GMT -6
Ron: I am not surprised to hear that efforts have been made to conform your okra to a 5-chambered type. This is the classic "bhindi" that I see sliced up in Indian cuisine and at Indian grocery stores: i.imgur.com/VvnmNnI.jpgThank you for the information about how to read the lobes in okra flowers - of all the articles I've read, I have never taken note of that detail anywhere. It will be very helpful. For pickling (a whole other thread) I also like the smallest pods, with a tiny bit of stem still attached. I've bought pickled okra before that was prepared by stuffing long pods in a jar and cutting them off below the cap or tip which results in mixture of mucilage into the liquid and further softening of the pod, and that isn't my preference. Don't get me wrong - I ate every bit of it (lol) - it just isn't how I prefer to do it myself.
|
|
|
Post by chrysanthemum on Apr 15, 2021 16:59:06 GMT -6
I do a fair bit of fermenting vegetables, but I’ve never pickled okra. We ate fresh (often as Bhindi Masala) all that we harvested last year. Maybe I’ll have to try my hand at pickling some this year.
I’m about 100 miles away from Austin, nearer to San Antonio. Being in Hill Country, though, I often use Austin gardening resources because my climate is more like theirs.
|
|
|
Post by heavyhitterokra on Apr 17, 2021 9:15:00 GMT -6
In reference to the last post; there is a good okra pickling recipe on page one, under the Okra Recipes category: seedsavingnetwork.proboards.com/thread/82/okra-recipies?page=1
It has been tried, adjusted, and proven over the years. It was an old recipe of my Mom's that was passed down to me after her passing, back in 1978. I think it would be cool if others posted their pickling recipes there in the recipes category as well. I, for one, would enjoy reading the different processes that people employ, as well as some possible tips from others about how to improve on Mom's basic recipe.
Has anyone tried pickling white okra? Does it retain its white color?
I know, one time, I had this 'wonderful' idea of pickling broccoli and red pepper rings, to be used in a 'Red and Green' Christmas pickle platter. I was sorely disappointed at the resulting colors after the acid in the vinegar turned all of my broccoli to a nasty, olive drab color. Sometimes, things seem to work a lot better in your head than they do in real life.
|
|