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Post by FrostyTurnip on Jan 26, 2023 9:00:32 GMT -6
That’s a pretty nifty idea for us since we get a lot of sunshine in the winter. My back yard chickens make this easy work. We bring in the waterers at night, taking them out first thing in the morning.
The coop they are housed in is an old tool shed abutted on the West side of the rabbit hutch. It’s not attached and unrelated to the rabbit hutch, a separate building. Haven’t had any kits since the chickens started using it. The bun buns have been skiddish and run around their cages like maniacs when I walk by. Spoiled rabbits . . .
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Post by macmex on Jan 26, 2023 11:48:27 GMT -6
Somehow, no matter how I try, posts slip past me. Frosty, I just saw your question about incubator versus using a hen. Here are some thoughts.
My first experiment with incubation was when I was six. My folks got me a three egg incubator, made of plastic, for Christmas. They also located hatching eggs. Anyway, that flopped. Chicks developed but were deformed and never hatched. Looking back on it, I'm pretty sure that little incubator's thermostat just couldn't handle the variation in temps found in our home.
My next experiment was while in 7th grade. I was reading about it and had a terrible case of "chicken fever." I HAD to have some chickens, even though we lived in the suburbs. I used a wooden box from some produce, lined it with aluminum foil, placed a Christmas tree light inside along with a water dish and monitored temps, day and night, using an aquarium thermometer. I adjusted the temps by peeling back the aluminum foil covering the top of the box, or folding it back over, depending on the need. I rode my bike four miles to a farm and purchased three brown eggs (I thought brown eggs tasted better.). I put them in there and turned them a couple times a day. After 21 days one chick hatched. The other two were deformed. Anyway, that one chick turned out to be a Barred Rock pullet. I kept her as a pet. She even rode the school bus with me to school for a couple weeks. (Had a fabulous 7th grade teacher.)
Okay, 'nuff said for historical background:
For some years I hatched chicks using a $30 Styrofoam incubator from the feed store. It didn't have a turner, so I had to turn three times a day. It didn't have a means of measuring humidity. I just kept the reservoir full of water. I learned that this worked alright but it really didn't work out when using the same incubator after the first year. The Styrofoam retained bacteria which caused a high mortality rate and my hatch rate would plummet. For a while, I simply purchased a new incubator every year. During these years we were raising Kraienkoppes which are absolutely crazy about going broody. They are almost like a wild chicken as they would hide all over the place, popping out with chicks (when predators didn't get them.
After we switched over to Buckeyes we decided to upgrade to a Sportsmans GQF Incubator. This incubator can realistically hatch out as many as 200 eggs at a time, though I believe it was advertised as doing more. By this time we had a very high quality strain of a fairly rare heritage breed and I was thinking of selling chicks via Craigslist. That incubator has everything for controling humidity as well as temperature and came with instructions which might work for someone, somewhere, but I found that they wanted me to use too much humidity. Ask if you ever need to know more about it, but basically I learned to do "dry incubation." With this incubator and "dry incubation" I got to where I had about an 85% hatch rate. This is the Cadillac of incubators in my opinion. It cost me $450 back around 2011 and has definitely paid for itself. Now, however, basically the same unit can run over $1000. If I lost mine, I might not get another. That's an awful lot of money!
Depending on breed and strain, hens can be quite effective incubators. It's very important to learn the idiosyncrasies of whatever breed and strain you are using. For instance, most bantams will sit on eggs even if the apocalypse appears to be taking place all around them. We knew one Millie Fleur bantam who would hop on our egg basket and start to try hatching the eggs, the moment we set it down for any reason. I'd swear, she'd have sat tight if we'd set it in the car and drove around with her! Other breeds/strains are practically worthless for hatching. Back in 1981, when Jerreth and I were newly married, we had Brown Leghorns, basically a non-broody breed of chicken. But I had one hen who would "go broody for an afternoon." She'd set on some eggs and show all the behavior of being broody, only to stand, shake herself off, and walk away by the next morning. She apparently felt she'd done her duty and it was time to move on. Interestingly, when we moved to Indiana in the fall of 82, we gave our chickens to some friends. They had a broody hen get killed by a racoon or skunk, hours before her chicks were due to hatch. That same Brown Leghorn hen came upon the peeping eggs and decided to put in her time, right then. They hatched out within hours and she did fine, raising those chicks.
With the full sized (large fowl) breeds some are what I call "broody," and some are "non-broody," like the Leghorn. Yet within the broody breeds there are sometimes strains which are more or less inclined to set on eggs. Even with Buckeyes, I obtained some stock from a commercial hatchery, one time, which would only go broody after their first year of laying. They were good mothers after that. The current strain of Buckeye, which we have, goes broody very very readily. I am impressed, however, that in spite of this, we still get very good laying rates.
If hatching under a hen it's generally best to pen that hen by herself (or maybe with just a rooster). Set up a nest box for her in that pen. You can leave the eggs she lays in order to help encourage her to go broody. Then, when she does, you can either leave the eggs under her, or perhaps better, swap them out with more freshly laid eggs from your breeding flock. The reason I recommend this approach is that the majority of hens we "break up," meaning they will go "un-broody" once one moves their nest. Additionally, even if they still want to set, the vast majority of hens will not return to the nest, after a food and bathroom break, if the nest has been moved. They simply don't figure things out. The nest has to stay where it was when they decided to set.
I've had pretty good results with rogue hens, who hide in brush pile piles or in the barn and incubate "without permission." Generally, if they found a place that hid those eggs from me until they had a clutch, it's a decent enough place for them to hatch them. Our livestock guardian dogs protect them, so they do succeed in hatching chicks and I can move the hen and newly hatched chicks to a pen, once all have hatched. But this is a very risky thing, even with my livestock guardian dogs. It's very easy for a opossum or other critter to sneak in there and kill the mother and chicks. I've seen raccoon apparently wait until the night before the chicks would hatch and then eat every one of them. They like chicks on the half shell better than fresh eggs.
Last year I only hatched a couple of batches in the incubator, due to my own health issues. These were scarfed up with such zeal, that I was left with none for ourselves. Fortunately, I had enough rogue hens succeed, that we still met our own quota for replacement hens and meat.
One last suggestion: if one wants to maintain a non-broody breed of chicken they might consider keeping a couple of bantam hens with their flock. Chose a breed that lays eggs which are easy to tell apart from the large fowl. Bantams are wonderful incubators and superb mothers. I don't believe I've ever seen any bantam from any breed, which wasn't a good mother. Generally, they can only incubate between 4 and 6 large fowl eggs at a time, but they are persistent and dependable.
Hope this helps. I did write an eBook on incubation and could email you a copy (to anyone reading this) if requested.
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Post by FrostyTurnip on Jan 26, 2023 17:04:25 GMT -6
I love love love that childhood story. This is the first time I’ve learned that it was a Barred Rock. I could see Roughie following me to school. Keh
Having sat on my question a while I resorted to what I always tell people when they ask, “Should I do it this way or that way?” My answer is always “Both!”
Your post was a wealth of information. Not surprising since you’ve been hatching chicks since you were six!
I hope that incubator holds up for you and I also hope you get full loads in there this spring where I think sales are going to skyrocket. I’m hearing rumors that the price of chicks is going to be hefty this spring. They’re already hefty compared to years past. I don’t know if the rumors are true, but I don’t want to risk it. So, I was willing to nab the mutt roo.
So a bantam, yeah? I heard something about chicken math. Promised myself I would never do chicken math. Hahaha
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Post by macmex on Jan 27, 2023 7:53:52 GMT -6
Here's another tidbit which has helped me quite a bit. One can disinfect the incubator between hatchings. After chicks have hatched in an incubator there is often a fine dust coating its surfaces. This residue can harbor bacteria. I purchased Brinsea® Incubation Disinfectant Concentrate which is kind of pricey. Sandhill Preservation Center recommended it to me. I even mix up a batch and dip my hatching eggs (1 minute) in a lukewarm solution, setting them out on a clean dish cloth to dry, before handling them afterwards. This is my regular practice however, I have hatched successfully without doing this, but if I do, I use only very clean eggs, with no dirt or stains on them. One way or another, I will always disinfect the incubator between hatchings. A bottle of Brinsea disinfectant lasts me for years. I mix up a spray bottle, every year, which lasts for incubator disinfection for that year. One spray bottle uses about 1/5 of a bottle of the concentrate.
I looked around, and it appears that this stuff is exceedingly difficult to obtain right now. Here's a substitute, which probably works as well: Chicktec Hatchery Sanitizer. Also, here's a decent article on egg disinfection: Personally, I never ever scrub a hatching egg. I try to leave the cuticle (natural protective membrane) intact.
Once, over 20 years ago, I had an especially dirty batch of eggs I wanted to hatch. I scrubbed them, removing the cuticle, placing them in a Styrofoam incubator. I believe I had about 30 eggs in there. Most all of those eggs incubated but only a small percentage hatched. Many died in the shell, when they should have hatched. Those who did hatch were weak and sickly. They stunk too. They had all been infected with some bacteria. By the time a couple days had gone by, after hatching, I think we lost them all. It is better not to disinfect at all than to scrub eggs.
I need to research, as I have forgotten what we used for disinfection before getting into Brinsea.
I think freshly hatched chicks will be like gold this spring. I haven't advertised and won't, this year, but I'm nearly maxed out on orders (all repeat customers). I do need to raise my prices.
In the past I've observed in places like Craigslist, that there are people who routinely sell eggs at such a low price that, though they probably don't realize it, it costs them more than they are making on sales. I suspect that won't be the case this year. Many folk have discontinued their flocks due to the high price of feed. We reduced our flock by about 50% because egg sales simply did not recuperate enough of our feed expenses.
A purebred chick is generally worth about twice as much as a mixed breed, even though the mixed breed may be nearly as useful. The thing with mixed breeds is that their characteristics are generally unpredictable and stabilizing a new line takes some years. Selling purebred chicks makes more profit. After the initial investment in breeding stock, one can basically maintain it indefinitely, even improving it by strict selection.
One the other hand,... bantams, even mixed, are often quite popular. They may not be production machines like some purebred large fowl, but they are super hardy and generally extremely thrifty. They are very sustainable. I just prefer large fowl because we like a large carcass on the table.
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Post by macmex on Jan 27, 2023 8:03:46 GMT -6
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Post by FrostyTurnip on Jan 27, 2023 12:30:25 GMT -6
Marvelous. I will tell ya, with our being Paupers: If I were needing chickens like yours, I would be willing to pay for it. No questions asked. Indeed, I considered it but they are not suitable for our environment. I’m so glad I did thorough research on this. So, I’m not surprised you’re sold out. I suspect you’ll be sold out months in advance for the next few years.
Eggs to the human diet is similar to pollen for bees.
Bill messaged me one day to ask how much for a dozen eggs because someone had asked.
I’m using my pet chicken as a guinea pig. When she is free ranging, she all but knocks on the back door where she comes in and has a treat and conversation with me. I think I’m part chicken because I know her voice from among the flock. LOL I’m experimenting to watch and see what I have readily available that will fatten her up. So far, it is pure protein either in flesh or something like wheat berries. I need to grow much more wheat!
I think the bun buns in the compost might be the biggest help.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Jan 27, 2023 20:58:27 GMT -6
It's hard to beat the personality of a Barred Rock rooster. I've never had a mean Barred Rock. On the other hand, that little banty we have is a strait up demon! I have to catch him on the roost about once per month to cut his spurs, they're nearly as sharp as little rose thorns. He'll lay in wait under the truck or under the Jeep and waylay the ankles of anyone who happens by. (Talk about scaring the crap out of somebody), when he does that during snake season I've thought I'd been had more than once!
He's my daughter's pet, so my only hope is to outlive him. I'd sure never let her transplant another one here!
Our white leghorn rooster is kind of a jerk too. He doesn't mess with me because I'll just reach down and grab him by the legs while he's still in the air, but he stalks my wife and our poor little granddaughters.
I haven't bought eggs in years. I had no idea they were so high! that was a real eye opener when a friend of mine pointed that out about a week ago. Like I said, I had no idea.
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Post by macmex on Jan 28, 2023 7:17:18 GMT -6
Well, that little white banty rooster is basically a game cock bantam. He's made to "run hot." Leghorns also tend to be aggressive. That's the only breed I've had which was naturally a chick killer. Our Brown Leghorns would snatch chicks from a banty hen, run off and eat them. Rhode Island Red roosters are renowned for being aggressive too. I have never heard of an aggressive Rock or Wyandotte. By the way, back in 1981 my wife and I had some White Wyandottes from Murray McMurray Hatchery. They were large, exceedingly docile and decent layers. Wyandottes are not appreciated enough. Perhaps their bloodlines may have degenerated since then. Who knows?
The ideal I would like to see is lots of backyard chicken breeders maintaining a pure flock of whatever breed they really love.
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Post by woodeye on Jan 28, 2023 8:49:12 GMT -6
In my chicken raising career I've had 2 roosters that were not tolerant of people. One was a white Americauna banty I named Loner. I named him that because I had a group of about 12 Americauna banties that I sold, but as I was catching them for the people that bought them, one got loose and ran away. Since he was now the only one left, I named him Loner. He eventually showed up again, but only after the remainder of his flock had been hauled away to their new home. The rest of his life he lived with large size chickens, but that didn't stop him from ruling the roost. He was the Pit Bull of banty roosters, he'd nail anybody, man or woman, that entered the yard. It took a coyote to stop him in his tracks, and by the way, those tracks were the very last tracks he ever made.
The other terrorist rooster I had was a large size Welsummer. He actually caused more cuts and more blood on my legs, but only because he was 5 times bigger than Loner was. I never named him, although I did call him a few names, but he and Loner existed at the same time in my backyard, they were both part of the very last flock of chickens I had, their demise came from coyote predation.
I agree, macmex, Wyandottes are a very good breed of chicken. I had a flock of White Wyandottes back in the latter part of the 80's. They didn't lay huge eggs, but were consistent. Good hatching rates for them too. I've had several different colors of Wyandottes over the years, White, Silver Laced, Columbian, Blue Laced, but the first flock of White Wyandottes remains the best flock I have had of them.
If I was starting all over with chickens, and was to have only one breed, it would be Americauna Bantams. Even though I love Welsummer chickens equally, the cost of feed and upkeep would sway me to the bantams nowadays. Plus banty eggs from free range Americaunas are my #1 favorite eggs for some reason...
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Post by FrostyTurnip on Jan 28, 2023 16:06:59 GMT -6
The Wyandottes have fabulous plumage and I almost got those because they lay large eggs, but the Rocks are more heat tolerant. After last year? Whew. We’re good with the Rocks.
chrysanthemum
Little Miss named the roo Hiccup.
I wanted to give the them all a high protein treat, but my not any more from the wheat berries. We scrambled up a dozen eggs for them. Talk about sustainable!
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Post by chrysanthemum on Jan 28, 2023 22:03:24 GMT -6
Cute!
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Post by macmex on Jan 29, 2023 18:07:39 GMT -6
This afternoon I disinfected my first batch of hatching eggs for 2023. The birds have been laying more slowly than usual yet in about 10 days I did gather 35 eggs. We have a very good likelihood of getting 25 chicks or more from this batch. Just to reach requests we already have on hand I will have to do this size batch three more times.
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Post by woodeye on Jan 29, 2023 23:09:26 GMT -6
Looking good, macmex. Best of luck on your hatches!
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Jan 30, 2023 2:56:48 GMT -6
That's beautiful, George! I needed to see a photo like that to take the blues away from this drizzly day. Your kitchen has always looked so inviting. I love the way your windows let in tons of light around your corner sink. Whoever designed that layout was a genius. In the summertime, with the attic fan on, it's a pleasure to stand right there at the sink, washing milk pails and getting bottles ready for the calves in the mornings. You're a lucky man to have that set up so that it almost feels like one is standing outdoors in warm Springtime weather.
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Post by FrostyTurnip on Jan 30, 2023 9:24:33 GMT -6
Thanks for the photo! So exciting. Spring is definitely coming.
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