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Post by heavyhitterokra on Jan 13, 2020 23:06:25 GMT -6
Bon,
Your scratching rabbit reminded me of a bad rabbit we had here one time. It was so mean, that we named it, 'Bunnicula'. I got it for our daughter, who was about 5 or 6 years old at the time, but it was too mean to be handled by children.
It would bite and scratch every time it was picked up or even when approached. It would lunge at you with its teeth when you reached for the latch of the cage to take it out, so I took it to live in the barn with the rest of the meat rabbits, instead of raising it in a cage closer to the house, so my daughter wouldn't get attached to it.
We had a cockatiel at the time, who would follow me everywhere I went, including to do chores. One day, that little bird landed on the bunny cage and 'Bunnicula' bit two of its toes off. Rabbits can be dangerous if they have a foul temperament or even a temperament for eating fowl. ;(
The little cockatiel was okay after it healed up for a few days though. It didn't seem to be phased too much by the incident and continued to follow me around during chores. It even rode in the car with me when I traveled. I remember driving all the way to Kansas City with that little bird perched on the steering wheel. It would run along the top of the wheel, jumping my hands as I steered hand over hand, around corners. It would keep me company during the many hours drive time from job site to job site.
While on the road like that, I would have to live in hotels, in different cities, for months on end. No pets were allowed, so I'd have to keep the bird hidden in a box to keep the Maid from finding him. He was so happy to see me every evening, he'd do a little song and dance when I turned him loose. At night, he'd sleep in a granite wash pan on the nightstand, beside the bed. During the daytime, he'd stay in a cardboard box, in the closet. On days off, I'd take him outside to fly around and get his exercise. He'd fly out a few yards, if I tossed him in the air and would always come right back to perch on my shoulder. When I sat down to eat supper at night, after I got home from a long day's work, there'd better be a separate plate for the bird, or he'd fly and land on mine. He'd eat anything I did, just like a little person. He reminded me a lot of Sweet Pea, my Cotton Patch gander. I could see Sweet Pea getting to be like that if he were allowed to come inside the house with me.
Good or bad; some animals are just way different than all the others. I suppose that's why we eat some of them and raise others as quasi-members of the family.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Jan 14, 2020 0:19:09 GMT -6
Bon, I just wanted to mention this before I forget. Last Spring, I covered a 48' foot by 14' foot hoop house entirely with chicken wire to house my geese. The local lumber yard wanted outrageous prices for their wire, but I found 72" inch tall rolls of chicken wire 150' feet long for $116.00 per roll at Atwoods. www.atwoods.com/midwest-air-technologies-netting-poultry-72-in-x-150-ft-x-1-in.htmlI was able to cover the entire hoop house for under $300.00 (Tax-exempt). You can get a farm exemption at the Court House, to avoid paying sales tax on building materials, feed, medicines, and other livestock supplies. I covered the chicken wire on my goose enclosure with 16' foot cattle panels, so dogs could not tear their way inside. Even if they managed to tear through the chicken wire, the cattle panel squares are too small for dogs or coyotes to get inside where the geese are. I staked out 24" inch chicken wire along the ground, under the 2x6 treated bottom board of the hoop house to keep any dogs or varmints from digging underneath to get inside. I've built rabbit hutches out of 2"x 2" lumber and chicken wire before too, using wooden drop boxes along the backside for nesting. My rabbit hutches were located inside an old barn, with a wooden walk-thru door for me to enter, so large predators like dogs were not likely to be a problem. The chicken wire hutches worked just as well as 1"x 2" cage wire. I just had to be careful to always wrap the lumber in chicken wire, or set it to the outside so the rabbits couldn't 'crib' their way out by gnawing at the 2"x 2"framework. The chicken wire and wood frame construction was a lot cheaper than wire cage material. I used barrel bolts as latches to keep the doors closed. I used old, aluminum trailer house doors set at an angle under each cage, to direct rabbit droppings and urine into a wooden gutter that was cleaned out by trimming a square nose shovel to fit the 1"x 6" homemade gutters. The gutter was set at an angle to feed into a 5-gallon bucket collection point. At chore time, I'd carry the bucket to the loafing shed, to be emptied onto a pile of straw to be used as mulch on my garden later. With your drafting background, drawing up a simple layout like that ought to be a breeze. Each hutch was built to the size of the aluminum door that was used below it. I used 2x4 treated lumber as legs to get the height I wanted, so the cage doors were about eye-level to the top. That made it easy to reach all the way to the back of each compartment of the hutch to grab rabbits without stooping over. That way, when it was time to dispatch the rabbits, I had everything within arm's reach and could lay the carcasses to the side as I went along without having to do too many gymnastics to get doors latched or unlatched with my hands full, trying to carry live rabbits. 1/2" inch CD Plywood could be used in place of aluminum doors. I just used those because they were what I had at the time. This is my goose enclosure. I bought the steel entry door at Habitat for Humanity for $25.00 ... It needed a little TLC to put it back into any condition to be used, but it was nothing a few wood screws and a 3 pound hammer couldn't manage. I've kept my geese in here every night since last April without incident. That's saying a lot with the number of coyotes, foxes, bobcats, raccoons, possums, chicken hawks, and marauding dogs we have around here. My neighbor about a half mile across from me raises 1,200 chickens and tosses his dead ones over the back fence each day. We have a large amount of predators because of this, so I have to build everything extra heavy duty to avoid having my livestock eaten by the bad things that roam the woods at night.
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Post by macmex on Jan 22, 2020 10:40:15 GMT -6
Most rabbits are bred at about 5 mos. of age. I've heard some breeders say that they wait for 6 mos, though I'm not sure why. I've had does get bred by accident at 3 months and do alright, though I hear there's a danger that their maternal instincts won't be fully formed and ready. If bred early and they fail, that's often the end of them. They never get it right. If I've experienced this myself, it was over 20 years ago. Can't remember it.
I read that rabbits can be inbred for 3 generations, and after that they need to be outcrossed. I have no idea about line breeding.
If someday you need a new buck, maybe I can help you. The best does I currently have are something like 3/4 New Zealand and 1/4 Checkered Giant. The are really large and their offspring size up very well. My main buck is essentially pure New Zealand White. His father was from show stock and was really large. I also have a young buck which is about 7/8 New Zealand and 1/8 Checkered Giant. I've only just used him for the first time. Interestingly, these Checkered Giants always produce a smattering of pure black babies, and this, when crossed with a buck who can only pass on genes for white.
Be aware that breeding does will often "give out" with no warning, after two years of age. This I have had happen. Their uterus simply fails and they die, most often just before giving birth to what would have been their last litter. So, if you really like this doe, save some females from her very next litter.
I also have a "rabbit friend," here in Tahlequah, who even frequents rabbit shows. She raises MANY rabbits. She and her husband produce meat to feed their coon hounds, by raising rabbits. She has excellent stock and is very willing to sell young animals at a very reasonable price. She's extremely knowledgeable too.
If possible, I'd avoid getting rabbits from auctions or sources about which you know nothing. They could carry who knows what pathogens or parasites.
As a matter of principle I have or produce a "standby" for any breeder I have that is older than 2 years.
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Post by macmex on Jan 22, 2020 18:50:18 GMT -6
I need to take some pictures of the Checkered Giant crosses I have. They're white with grey, black or brown spots. I think the black is something connected to the spotted gene. At any rate, the blacks are beautiful and tasty too. Here's a link to an image of one: Giant Checkered Rabbit.
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Post by macmex on Feb 21, 2020 8:25:23 GMT -6
When the pair both come from fairly inbred lines, I believe hybrid vigor is real. In spite of raising rabbits most of my life, I have never moved past using mixed breed rabbits. I did have a pure bred white New Zealand buck for at least 4 years. He came from show lines, as I understand. He produced wonderful offspring. My main buck now is his son, out of a White New Zealand appearing doe, of unknown breeding. She was excellent as a production doe. Currently I have a spare buck who has an undetermined amount of Giant Checkered in his breeding. The rest is from his father, my current buck. If you ever need, I am sure I could get you some stock, either from my herd, or from a friend nearby,
I have a friend who has done a whole lot more with rabbits, than have I. She and her husband raise coon hounds and feed them on rabbits they raise. (That's some special food!) She has shown rabbits too. I know she experiments with crosses. I've purchased some does from her, over the years. Every one has been of "interesting" breeding background but has been a superb doe. She sells me rabbits at a ridiculously low price. I don't know if it's because it's me she's selling to, or if she always sells cheaply. She loves it when someone shows interest in rabbits.
Anyway, let me know if you ever want to make the trip. I could round up what you need, ahead of time.
By the way, there's a wide range of opinion about handling rabbits. I handle mine gently and... as infrequently as I can. Others get their rabbits to the point of such tameness, that they handle like pets.
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Post by macmex on Mar 29, 2020 5:23:31 GMT -6
I don't think he'll ever attack. He was thumping out of sheer joy. With that kind of response, I'd be highly surprised if she doesn't have a litter in a little over a month. You're on your way! Keep a spare buck, just in case. I haven't had it happen with any from Blackeye's lineage, but in the past, some of my best bucks have had heart attacks when I was least expecting it. That's one reason I always try to keep a spare on hand.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Apr 1, 2020 14:46:43 GMT -6
Great report, Bon.
It's always nice to hear some good, positive news in times like these. Thanks, for cheering us up.
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Post by macmex on Apr 2, 2020 8:11:04 GMT -6
That's very good! Here are some photos of what I've got going in the rabbit shed. I try to ramp up production now, before hot weather arrives. Unlike the North, where they often can't breed their rabbits during the cold months, here in Oklahoma, we can't very well breed them during the hot months. It's just too hot. So my last litters for the summer are usually born around the beginning of June. We can pick up breeding, usually around the third week of April.
Also, we have a person in our home who has an allergy to red meat. So rabbit is very important in our diet.
This is a litter of 8. They're at least 3/4 New Zealand with a bit of Giant Checkered in them. I've found this mix to be an excellent producer of meat rabbits. This, I believe are full siblings to Blackeye, who now resides with Bon. They're about 7 weeks old.
This is a cage of 9. I haven't looked, but I'm guessing they're about 9 weeks old. Rabbits grow very rapidly. These have the same breeding, yet we have no spotted rabbits in the litter.
This was a litter of 7 or 8, but somewhere along the way we lost all but 4. I believe they escaped and "disappeared." These are running a bit small. Their great great grandmother was a Dutch. Dutch, though they make good eating, don't grow that large and they grow slowly compared to a good meat breed. We just ate their mother and I won't save any for breeding stock. This was an experiment.
This is a 10 or 12 day old litter of 8. One is a "peanut," meaning that it is a dwarf, and not growing well. Most peanuts don't make it for long. They don't thrive. These are the same lineage as most of my rabbits. They're growing well.
Presently we have two breeding does and one buck. I will set aside a buck and a doe from one of these litters. We try to have a spare of each, though I breed our rabbits as if they were only 2 does and 1 buck. Otherwise we get overrun.
This will be a lot of meat, but we will use it, probably all of it, by the time we produce more in the fall. Our first fall litters won't be ready for butchering until around Thanksgiving.
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Post by macmex on Apr 2, 2020 14:21:08 GMT -6
Generally, ten days after they mate, I put the doe back in with the buck. If she's pregnant, she'll pitch a fit. If she doesn't, I let them mate again and mark the earlier and later dates on my calendar. Kits may appear at either.
I am a BIG fan of nest boxes. In fact, I make mine tall, so the kits cannot get out as soon as their eyes open. The photo with the young ones out, was an exception. They started jumping out of their tall box before they ought to have. If weather had been cold, they'd have been in trouble.
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Post by macmex on Apr 3, 2020 7:38:54 GMT -6
Bon, today I'll get you a picture and dimensions. A couple of tips, beforehand:
1) Wood with a wooden bottom is my preference. The wood is warmer in the winter. I know people who use metal boxes, even with screen bottoms, but I also know folks who have used them, who had kits die of hypothermia during cold weather. Wood will drain, when kits pee in the box, and it's warmer.
2) I have experimented with cardboard, but especially with the larger rabbits, they tend to turn the boxes over and then they don't work. They end up rejecting them.
3) The doe should have the nest box at least a couple of days before they're due to kindle. They need time to adopt the box as their preferred place to have their little ones. I prefer to put the box in between the halfway make and third week of gestation.
4) Nest boxes can be a great source of contagion. Kits poop and pee in them. Some kits die, and even, sometimes rot in them. (They get lost in the bedding.) Once a litter is done with the nest box, dump out the bedding and: a. Put the box outside in the sun. Solar rays are great for killing germs. b. Before putting it back into service, try to flame the box, using the weed burning I've already mentioned.
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Post by macmex on Apr 8, 2020 6:55:52 GMT -6
Here's the scoop on rabbit nest boxes. There are a number of styles out there. I've heard of metal boxes with screen bottoms. Those must be for use in hot weather. The only report I've heard of how they work was from friends who lost a litter during cold weather. They kits died from being too cold.
In Mexico, we sometimes used rectangular metal cans, which I think originally came with lard or vegetable oil in them. They worked okay, but tended to be just a tad small.
I make my own out of wood, using whatever I have at hand. I will say, if you have some kind of pressure treated lumber DON'T use it. It would probably endanger your rabbits' health.
Here's one style:
This type has a lower side at the entrance. It makes it easier for the doe to get in and out. But, it also makes it easier for the kits to get out. I tend to avoid these, now, as I've had too many kits get out of the box, when they were too young. Still, this is much better than no nest box or, in my opinion, a metal nest box with a screen bottom.
Here's my favorite kind:
Now, you can tell that I'm not a good carpenter, but this is very serviceable and I haven't had a rabbit complain about it yet. It's 9" tall. all the way around. It's 12" wide and 16" long, which works well for larger meat rabbits. One can use a smaller box for a smaller rabbit. Also, be careful when making your own nest boxes, that they are not so tall that they hinder the doe from getting in. This would happen, say, if the cage were only 13" tall, as she might not feel comfortable squeezing in.
Wood is warm in the winter. Also, my shoddy construction makes them drain very well when the kits pee in it (they all do). Of course wood can harbor disease, so it's very important to solorarize the box, when it's not in use and to flame it just before using. I don't have a photo of it, but if you look inside this box, you can see scorch marks from various flamings.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Apr 8, 2020 23:00:04 GMT -6
That nest box looks like a really good place to use up some pallet wood. I see free pallets in town every year when the hardware stores get their Spring shipment of riding mowers. They're easy to tear down using a sawzall (which I have) for that very purpose.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2020 10:04:20 GMT -6
George, thank you for taking the time to provide this information. Much of it I didn't know. My cages are 14" h. Think I'll lower that front edge a bit. Momma doe is 14.5lbs
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Post by Deleted on Apr 11, 2020 12:17:41 GMT -6
One of my rabbits is stubborn and won't take care of herself. She has sore hawks. Won't sit on the tray in the cage. These are plastic restaurant food trays that are slipper on their back sides. So, next, I lined her cage with hay. She pushes it out of the way and stretches out on the wire floor. It's not even hot yet. She props those sore back hawks up, but they won't heal unless she's able to stay off for a period of time. I've been treating her sores with gentian violet with good results.
I could a piece of wood, see if she'll rest on it. Frustrating. Never had a rabbit so stupid.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2020 15:02:27 GMT -6
She's doing better. I took some old planks and removed the nails and placed a few across the bottom of two of the cages covering about half of each cage. I don't mind tossing them out or burning them and replacing later. As difficult as it is to keep wood clean, they sure do love it.
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