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Post by macmex on Oct 20, 2019 4:17:30 GMT -6
esterday, as I was processing seed, I accumulated a very large amount of Roselle seed. I got to thinking, "I used to make "coffee" with garbanzo beans and soy beans." "Some folk have made "coffee" with toasted corn or okra seed." "Roselle is related to okra...." "I bet Roselle seed would make good coffee!" That was my line of thinking.
So I toasted some Roselle seed on a tray, in the oven...
This morning I ground the toasted seed in my coffee grinder and used it in our French press.
After letting it set for a few minutes I poured myself a cup of "coffee."
Okay... that's the end of any semblance to coffee. I took a swig and almost spit it out. It tasted vaguely of turpentine. Nope, there was no hope of doctoring that up. I would fear for my health if I drank it.
I'm just writing about this to save someone else from the experiment!
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Post by glen on Oct 22, 2019 18:54:44 GMT -6
George, I have been waiting for someone to roast and grind okra seed to make coffee for years. We know that it is a proven and liked coffee substitute as recorded in the history books. Why haven't you tried making coffee out of okra seed? I don't have a good oven for roasting it. Nor do I have a good way to grind it. Could you please take one for the team and try making coffee nescafe? If Roselle was any good for making coffee out of we would have already heard rumors that this was the case. We do appreciate the roselle experiment though. Thanx.
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Post by macmex on Oct 22, 2019 19:00:52 GMT -6
I've just never had that much okra seed I wanted to sacrifice for that cause. Perhaps sometime Ron can come up with some seed which is ready to discard, and we'll give it a try.
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Post by glen on Oct 22, 2019 22:27:49 GMT -6
I am pretty sure that Ron has tons of seed. He only sells special hand picked seed from special plants. Ron. What do you do with all that extra seed? Lets make some coffee out of a little bit!!! Please.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Oct 26, 2019 12:42:25 GMT -6
Enough said.
George, be expecting a good mess of okra seeds after this rain lets up. I've already harvested about 16 pounds of okra seed for market and have already sold 12 pounds of it, but I have another 30 to 40 pounds out in the field that I haven't harvested because those were not my best plants. Those seeds will be slated for coffee experiments.
If it weren't so wet right now, I'd be out there picking it this afternoon. We got a little over 5" inches of rain this week, so the pods will take several days to recover.
On second thought ... The forecast calls for a one day let up on rain (tomorrow only) then more rain just about every day next week. I have surplus, 2018 seeds still in the pods. Do you think the oil content in one-year-old seeds would still be high enough to use as coffee?
I might not be able to get any fresh seed harvested for another week? They are still out there though. I'll be happy to donate them to a good cause, if this excess moisture doesn't bring on so much mildew that the pods are ruined.
Let me know what you think about trying the 2018 pods. I can have those over to you within the hour. The fresh pods might be a while longer, due to drying time.
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Post by macmex on Oct 26, 2019 22:50:43 GMT -6
2018 seed would be just fine, though I'll take anything you have, Ron. I know that okra seed will make a decent coffee substitute, as I know has been tried and proven by generations of rural Mexicans. One of my Mexican friends and co-workers grew up in a region called La Huesteca, there, okra grew wild. The people there harvested the dry seed in order to make a coffee substitute, calling it café castilla (which means something like "Spanish coffee), but they didn't know that the pods could be eaten when young. One day, when he went home to visit his parents, he picked some green okra pods and asked his mom to fix them for him. It frightened her, as she thought it might make him sick! But she did it, and he enjoyed a meal of okra.
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Post by glen on Oct 27, 2019 18:40:40 GMT -6
It is recorded in the history books that during the Civil war there was a blockade. I forgot the year. The Rebs couldn't get shipments of supply's so they began to roast okra seed and grind it to make a very good quality hot drink similar to coffee. They knew about it because they had been using okra seed to make coffee for the slave hands for many years. This is nothing new. Well, to more modern folks it is new since we are spoiled and drink real coffee. In Panama they still drink okra coffee and grow an okra called coffee okra, or nyahoo. I keep saying I am going to go and take photo's. Right in my neighborhood a man is growing coffee okra. First time I have ever seen someone in my neighborhood purposely growing it. He has it on a vacant lot. It appears that he just thru the okra in the air and where ever the seed landed is where it is growing. But, there is quite a lot of it and he didn't even bother to thin the plants. The plants are just now beginning to put on pods. I have known the plants were there for quite a while. I will tell ya, coffee okra is very late yeilding. They don't eat the pods. They let the plants go to seed and cut the pods solely for the seed. This type of okra is perfect for growing seed as it is extremely prolific and the pods are huge and produce a large quantity of very good quality seed. Some pods have 150 seeds. If I can just think of it tomorrow I will get out there and take some foto's. Some of the plants are very tall and super branchy. The pods on this particular variety are extremely beautiful. Nice and straight and have a nice dark green color. Real big.
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Post by glen on Oct 27, 2019 18:49:14 GMT -6
Ron, I am quite sure that the fresher seed will make the very best brew. Just saying. If you guys like okra coffee I might just try it myself. Regular coffee here in Panama is very affordable so I have just not been motivated to try and figure out a way to roast and grind it up. Here in Panama we also have a blend of coffee that contains maize. I tried it because the price was so reasonable. You have to read the fine print to see whats in it. It just says coffee and maize. I don't know the percentage. Well, I didn't like it. Doesn't taste anything like real coffee to me. I have also seen coffee mixed with something called chicory. I don't like that either. I can see why they try and sell these blends though. To people in the developing world, coffee is very expensive. To us its just an every day hot drink to enjoy. Here in Panama most folks don't even drink coffee. Just too high priced for them. That explains why they drink okra coffee still.
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Post by macmex on Oct 28, 2019 7:25:49 GMT -6
When we were in our last four year stint in Mexico, one of my projects was to figure out what could be done with soy and garbanzo, since we were able to grow them. I quickly learned that either of these would make a very full bodied coffee substitute. I enjoyed the garbanzo "coffee" so much, that I stopped buying regular coffee for some time. During this time I learned to make tofu out of both of these and how to stretch meat dishes using the left over meal produced when I made "milk" from these products. I enjoyed most everything we made with soy and garbanzo, but then, I'm renowned in my family for liking ANYTHING I myself make, even if it's not so good. Still, I believe that the "coffee" made from these, especially garbanzo, was truly excellent.
Our son was in his early teens at this time, and craving MEAT. Every now and then he'd get exasperated and beg me to take him out for some tacos. He also kinda rebelled against the "coffee," insisting on the "real thing." He rejected all things "soy and garbanzo."
Roll forward some six or seven years, and we were living in Oklahoma. Our son was at school at OSU and came home for a visit. I hadn't made garbanzo "coffee" for years, but just recently, in a fit of nostalgia, I did, placing the finished product in an empty Folger's can. Our son came home for the weekend, and the first morning he got up and found me in the kitchen, working on something. "Coffee" was brewed and ready. He poured himself a mug took a swig, placing his arm around my shoulders, exclaimed, "There's nothing better than a good cup of coffee in the morning." Looking sideways at him, I grinned and responded softly, " Gotcha." He looked bewildered until I started to crack up. The house resounded with his cry... "NOOOOO!!!!"
I'm telling you, the stuff is good.
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Post by glen on Oct 28, 2019 13:18:46 GMT -6
I know what you mean. We pay 5.50 now for the Columbian coffee in the supermarket for 500 grams. Panamanian coffee is a little more than that. This is expensive for me but I buy it anyways. Coffee has doubled in price since I moved to Panama. My small pension has not doubled. I remember back home how the company's change the amount in the can instead of raising the price. Eventually they also raise the price as well but they don't change the amount in the can. I think its a good idea to be aware of the different coffee substitutes. What if okra coffee is pretty good? You never know. Coffee could double in price to the point that it is not practical to enjoy? Okra seed is easy to produce. I would try it if the price of coffee got out of hand. I had never heard of using garbanzo beans to make coffee. There are also many different types of tea's that can be used if push comes to shove. I also like to drink instant coffee. We have several different brands made in Mexico and Brazil that are a third the price of national name brands. I buy those and stock up. Instant coffee stores for many years without deteriorating. So, if you find very inexpensive, off-brands, try them. If you like em, stock up. It won't go bad.
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Post by glen on Oct 28, 2019 13:24:55 GMT -6
George, that is a funny story about your son and the garbanzo coffee. I remember growing up, my family drank a lot of milk. I have 3 younger sisters. My Mom, desperate to save money on the grocery budget started mixing regular milk with powdered milk. My Dad was against this and said it. But, Mom did this while everyone was at school. She started out mixing the milk half and half. She put it in the regular milk jug so it looked the same. No one said anything. Mom then started upping the amount of powdered milk slowly until she got it up to 3-4's powdered milk to a quarter of regular milk. No one noticed. Finally, Mom got caught. After doing this for a long time though. Everyone was a little bit shocked. Even my Dad sort of quieted down a bit about it. Mom continued to do this. Looking back on this, I don't blame my Mom a bit. The family was drinking over a gallon of milk every day. Crazy. Something had to be done to hold the cost down.
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Post by glen on Oct 28, 2019 17:37:30 GMT -6
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Post by glen on Oct 29, 2019 16:11:08 GMT -6
Coffee okra is a special okra. They can be giants. They begin making okra in 4 or 5 months depending on weather conditions. It could take longer than that. This season there has been very little sun. So the okra is coming in even later. I noticed okra forming only on the larger specimans that have some space. This okra needs 4 or 5 feet of space to become truly giant in size and will get over 12 feet tall. I have grown them 15 feet tall. They can be very branchy and produce more than 100 pods. This was a very lazy grow out. The man just thru the seeds around and let them go. He never fertilized or worked any organic material into the soil. There are a couple of different versions of this okra in Panama but they look pretty similar with the exception of the leaf shape. AfricanX okra is very closely related to Coffee okra. I cut an African okra bloom and crossed a coffee okra speciman to make the f1 seeds. I grew out the seed, then cut a bloom from Coffee okra to back-cross the f1. This eventually became what is now AfricanX okra.
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Post by macmex on Oct 30, 2019 8:09:34 GMT -6
This is, indeed, the stuff from which heirlooms are made. We have the variety. We have the story behind it. Now we just need time.
To Make an Heirloom
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Post by macmex on Oct 30, 2019 8:26:52 GMT -6
Okay, well, Ron brought be about FIVE pounds of okra seed for making "okra coffee." Last night, while making supper and some English muffins for breakfasts, I decided to toast some okra seed.
Here's some seed, spread on a tray and ready to toast. I toasted it in the oven at 450 F. until it smoked (a lot). I wanted it to be dark, for coffee. With okra seed, apparently it is not easy to see that it is dark, as the outside shell doesn't turn dark brown. It's the inner seed which does.
I used some of Ron's 2019 seed, which had gotten quite waterlogged, out in the field. He wouldn't have used it for anything else. In fact, he had to dry it for quite a while, before he brought it to me. Still, while toasting the seed it sounded like I was making popcorn in the oven. Many seeds exploded, just like popcorn, though there was no "puff" that one could eat. The inside of the seed looked like dried coffee grounds.
This is what the seed looked like after toasting. By the time I finished, we had filled the house with smoke. I opened the kitchen door and turned on the attic fan, to pull the smoke through (and out of) the house. But we had a fire going in the wood stove, in our living room. We discovered that when one activates the attic fan, that pulls the smoke out of the wood stove and into the living room. So we had to stop using the attic fan. Okra seed smoke is not very irritating, as smoke goes. It could have been worse. I ended up going to bed. But in the morning, I tried making okra "coffee."
This is the toasted seed, ready to be ground.
It ground easily and quickly. This is what it looked like after grinding.
I poured a cup of okra coffee...
I also doctored it up with creamer and sugar, as is my custom with real coffee. And then I took a swig...
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