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Post by oldhack on Sept 24, 2017 15:24:41 GMT -6
I was wondering if it would do alright, i lime at 100 lbs per 1000 sq ft per soil test if that tells you something. The hickory king did this year good except for the recent hurricane witch upset there upward balance some. Or I was going to try Owen Davis from Sandhills as it would surely grow, thanks.
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Post by macmex on Sept 25, 2017 5:13:23 GMT -6
If you already successfully grew another corn there, I think Mesquakie Indian should also make for you. It's so good to hear that you are growing non sweet corns!
George
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Post by oldhack on Sept 25, 2017 16:43:26 GMT -6
How long do you dry dent corn before shelling, I let the popcorn I grew on other soil dry after picking for 3 weeks, is it a similar time frame? I'm hoping no one in my trailer park figures out how to grow corn, as to seed save, I have just enough room with rotation to have 200 plants...
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Post by macmex on Sept 26, 2017 5:08:10 GMT -6
I haven't really thought about how long I let it dry. But three weeks sounds good. I just pick my corn and stash it "until I get around to it," which at times is longer.
I understand about the trailer park. Here's a link for how to hand pollinate corn. This would protect your corn's purity, even if the next door neighbor raised another corn. I may eventually have to do this myself.
I'm going to focus on this corn. So, if you should want, when you grow out your first crop, harvest and shell, we can swap a pint of seed. For all practical purposes that would increase the genetic depth of our corn. Glen and Dorothy Bowen, of Stillwell, Oklahoma grew Mesquakie Indian a few years ago, and stored it in their freezer. They don't prefer it for cornmeal, as they say it's too sweet for them. Anyway, I'm hoping to get a jar of seed from them, to mix with my seed, in the coming year.
SSE on Hand pollination of corn
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Post by oldhack on Feb 9, 2018 16:59:01 GMT -6
How much space do you give this corn? I hope to make some hominy out of it, the seed seems small, but that just means I won't have to cook it as long.
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Post by macmex on Feb 10, 2018 6:46:23 GMT -6
I've squeezed it really close together and still made a harvest, but when I did, I used a lot of rabbit manure on it. And, the weeds were a problem, because I couldn't get the hoe in there to weed.
Normally I put 3' between rows and about 1 1/2' between plants in the row. If I doubled the spacing in the rows I suspect that ear size would go up. Also, additional compost would help.
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Post by oldhack on Mar 11, 2018 5:24:53 GMT -6
Is hilling always needed, I don't like uneven soil for erosive reasons, have you heard of planting corn in a 3 inch deep ditch? It would probably need to be hilled more than that right? Last year I only trenched every other row to hill the corn, making 2 rows of corn on 1 now elevated bed, this worked maybe as well as it was going to, and was very easy to lvl the soil out after planting. Another process I tried for a few plants was not hilling, simply letting them fall over when young then digging a small trench where it fell and placing the dirt on top of the lateral corn, it stood back up just about as good as the rest of them. Just looking for alternative paths. Another question is if going a corn, cowpea, rye, upland rice roatation, will the rye be able to give back enough nitrogen from cowpea and corn fertilization in no till to support the rice, or is this nitrogen given up to by rye slowly to make much of a difference?
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Post by macmex on Mar 11, 2018 6:01:09 GMT -6
When I planted Mesquakie Indian really close together it made it impossible to hill. It did alright, though, I'm sure, if there had been a big storm at the right time, it would have blown over. As you already mentioned, when corn blows over, it usually rights itself. My experience is that it will right itself, acceptably well, once. After that, it's going to be a mess.
I'm not quite sure what to say about the crop rotation question and nitrogen. Maybe someone else will know more on this. I personally, move my corn around, to different parts of the garden, from year to year. I don't use much fertilizer, other than mulch and some animal manure.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Mar 11, 2018 18:37:29 GMT -6
I plant corn 9" inches apart down the rows because that's how my grandma did it. She set her rows 18" inches apart. When I do that, the snakes get in the shade of my corn and I can't see them.
We have a creek near Our house, so in hot weather, the water draws snakes. One morning when I was hoeing corn, a water mocassin about as big around as my arm, struck my hoe as I slide it between the plants. The snake struck my hoe so hard he knocked it sideways in mid-air. I ended up chopping a pretty good swath through my corn trying to kill him. After that, I never plant my rows closer than 3 feet apart. (I still plant on 9" inch centers down each row though.)
Corn is a heavy feeder, so I move mine around each year too. I've not tried rye, but I grow Winter peas as a cover crop all Winter, then I till them under, still green, in the Spring. That has been a good source of nitrogen here.
I never realized what a difference that made until one year as I was cleaning new ground for a garden. I had piled chickweed into heaps where I raked it off of the new ground and just left the heaps all summer. The plants nearest these heaps of green weed matter and dead oak leaves grew leaps and bounds better than the other plants nearby. I had never realized how many goodies leach out of a mulch pile until that year. Now, I heap Austrian Winter pea vines and dead oak leaf litter on purpose. It makes a huge difference when you winrow a heap of litter alongside your rows where you have room to do it.
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Post by oldhack on Apr 16, 2018 5:26:35 GMT -6
Since I don't enjoy hilling corn, I may start a breeding project to try to breed a lodge resistant corn, it may not work, but I should still get my fill of corn out of it. The parents would be Glenn Beasley, Cherokee squaw, meskaqukie indian, and blue clarage. I find it odd that of the many corns, it's seems blue is a minority, but it makes up half the pop of what I,vet heard in reference a strong corns. I wonder if the increased protein in blue corns has relation to that, but it is possible they are genetically related more closely than known, or is just chance of them both being blue, idk. Is there any other candidates for lodge resistance? Should I try to plant the longer days to maturity varieties first to try to achieve equal polinatiin from all varieties? Is the adequate spacing of plants imperative so that when some of them lodge they do not force all others down creating a mat? Or is the matting bound to happen, making the trial less llikely to succeed. Should I try to force the plants down individually before this happens, I'm not sure how wind applies pressure to a stalk but I'm sure it's different that my hand.
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Post by macmex on Apr 17, 2018 8:42:03 GMT -6
There may be some other good, lodge resistant varieties. I'll get back to this. No time right now to do justice to such a great set of discussion questions!
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Post by oldhack on Apr 18, 2018 18:13:34 GMT -6
Another question is I plan on making a cross, with the females of one variety to the males to another variety, and vice versa in another plot. I'm not to sure about genetics but I'm pretty sure that some genes are only passed by a male or female, is that right. Does it make any sense to further cross, the crosses made the first year like I did the first year, males of cross 1 to female of cross 2, and vice versus in another plot, or is that step not needed and I should let them cross again freely. I've been think I might simplify it to two varieties atleast for the first few years.
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Post by macmex on Apr 20, 2018 11:27:43 GMT -6
You know, I don't know the answer to that question, about male and female providing only certain traits. Maybe someone who does know will drop in. I like the idea of mixing two or even more varieties and then letting them mix and remix, all the while the breeder selects for the desire traits they're looking for. I believe I once read of someone who did this at the Seed Savers Exchange farm, in Decorah, IA. They eventually came up with a really good variety.
Personally, I am probably just going to stick with Mesquakie Indian, and work on improvement through selection. There seems no end to the possibilities. But, one can certainly work on a new selection/variety. That's the beauty of seed saving!
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Post by oldhack on May 30, 2018 6:18:01 GMT -6
Have you had mesquakie flower this early? It's about 45 days after planting but the beginning was pretty cool temp. Seems short. Not many are flowering. I found from another forum that very few genes are passed only by the male or female ( or it may have been just male idk). Also if you make a variable land race with crosses, inbreeding deficit is much less problematic, and can have lower population/select from only a few plants for seeds for planting and they still shouldnt be inbred. Also at that forum they seem to think that hilling is not needed, but I'm still not sure what environmental condition makes our corn fall over and theirs not.
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Post by oldhack on May 30, 2018 6:43:00 GMT -6
Next year I want to grow a short season corn (matures in 65-70 days) in between the rows of a Long season corn to see if it's possible to have enough nutrients/light for both of them to yield. My theory is when the the short season corn needs more nutrient, there are more available nutrients because the long season corn is still smaller, but we,ll see, if the self thinning during maturity process works. i also want to get a cross out of blue Clarage and Cherokee squaw.
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