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Post by macmex on Sept 5, 2017 6:04:25 GMT -6
Glen, I'm guessing we'll get a gallon of seed. That's my hope. I want to share a lot of them with Native Seeds Search and offer to grow it for them in the future. Yet, I should have plenty to share, myself. In the past I've harvested 2 1/2 quarts of dry seed from 2 vines.
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Post by macmex on Sept 6, 2017 8:12:09 GMT -6
I had some more correspondence with our old friend, Merry Youle, in Hawaii. I had sent her some seed for Tarahumara Pink Green Bean, years ago, and she grew it in her garden, which lies pretty much on the 20th parallel. She reported that it grew to at least 10' for he, being very quite vigorous and productive. So, it seems that the rampant growth may not be entirely on account of day length sensitivity.
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Post by macmex on Sept 9, 2017 6:37:29 GMT -6
This week I observed the first tiny pods on Tarahumara Pink Green Bean.
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Post by glen on Sept 11, 2017 14:22:39 GMT -6
George, those are real nice photo's. I just got my new fence installed. 100 foot on each side of the house with 6 foot of cyclone fencing. The fence poles are 7 and a half foot tall so I can use plastic material to extend the hieght of the fencing another foot plus. My fence will look very nice with some of this Tarahumara pink bean growing on the fence.
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Post by macmex on Oct 9, 2017 8:01:12 GMT -6
This bean has continued blooming and setting pods at a very good rate. The flowers are beautiful, though, it seems during drought that they are less showy. We are just coming out of about 5 weeks without rain. Here's a photo of some more flowers.
The pods can attain to 8" of length. They are flattened and develop strings as they size up. I have picked pods at 7" of length, strung them, and eaten them raw. They are "okay" as string beans. There's nothing objectionable about them. But they are not super sweet, as I had remembered them. Is this due to conditions or strain of seed? I don't know. I have resisted picking and cooking pods, simply because I want the most seed possible from this crop.
The plants are starting to "show some wear" now. They are no longer growing rampantly, but rather working on growing beans and seed. Here's hoping we don't have an early frost!
Most pods are plane green in color. I've observed some with slight purple streaking and some with a slight purple blush. So apparently there is some variability in this seed stock.
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Post by glen on Oct 9, 2017 16:17:40 GMT -6
The plants are really putting on. Ron calls it Georges super bean. I want to see close up's of the dried bean itself. From what you are saying this is a dried bean kind of plant. Thats what I am interested in. I want to be able to produce my own dried bean and get lots of it from a fairly small planting. I bet it will grow nicely down here in Panama. I like the color of the bean. I am imagining the color of the gravy it will make when I have some of those beans in my slow cooker over nite. Nice.
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Post by glen on Nov 12, 2017 16:09:34 GMT -6
I just took another look at the nice frijoles this vine produces. The color is good. Judging by the color I am imagining the nice brown colored or darkish gravy that these beans would make in the slow cooker with some pork in the pot with em. Reminds me a bit of red beans and the gravy you get from them. You have not talked about this. You mentioned being able to put a couple of quarts of this dried bean away from only one vine. Great production. How many seeds do you think you can save from the project? At my house, beans are an important part of the diet. We prepare at least one big pot of beans every week and it lasts us a couple of days. We try and make em vegetarian style mostly and eat them with everything esecially white rice. Beans are probably the most important food crop produced down here in Central America. Without beans folks here would go hungry. Its important that we try and care for these old antique variety's. Fun also. Beans are one of those crops that are so cheap in the store to buy that its a wonder why anyone would bother to grow them at home. If you are going to bother to grow em at home grow heirloom variety's. I say that beans are cheap in the store to buy. They are only cheap to people that live in the first world. They aren't cheap to the locals down here.
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Post by macmex on Nov 16, 2017 20:08:38 GMT -6
Hi Glen, I've been preoccupied for the last couple of days. I'm glad you posted here. It drew my attention to the fact that I have neglected this thread. One October 28 we had a really hard freeze here. I covered these beans and put a light under the tarps. But they really took a hit. Here's a picture of the "tent" I made.
The next day I took a look. Almost everything looked frozen. Here's what it looked like inside the tent, on the morning of the 28th.
Since then I uncovered the vines, to let them have light and air. I also have had to cover them again, to protect against more freezing temperatures. I haven't been sure whether I'd get any seed or not. Yesterday I was examining the vines again. The vines definitely died in the freeze. Most of the pods froze, killing what seed they had. But I think some seed survived in pods closest to the light. Here's a picture of a seed which looks viable. I don't know how many I'll have. But it's enough to plant again, next year.
Actually, I saved enough seed from Native Seed Search, that I should be able to plant again.
One of the most important rules when growing out rare seeds, is not to plant all of them at one time... just in case!
I've never had this bean fail to produce seed, until this year. That's just how it is!
I will keep everyone posted on the final "bean count."
George
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Post by glen on Nov 17, 2017 19:49:29 GMT -6
I totally understand. I am really looking forward to the opportunity to try some of that seed. Until then, I am planning to plant some red beans that were grown in the next province over, the Herrera Province. They aren't far away so I am sure that they will grow in my province. I do not now if these beans are pole beans or not but I have read that most red beans or kidney beans are pole beans. When I get the notion I will plant a few as a test. I have plenty of fence to grow them out on. As far as the oahacan creme rescue project goes I think that will be successful. The seeds come so slow so I wouldn't think they would be a good variety for you to grow. I have had vines growing for over 3 and a half months and still only have 12 seeds saved. There are a lot of pods out there in different stages of development now though so we are in great shape as far as seed goes. I think we will have over 100 seeds when this is all over with and I have some in the freezer left over from the original pack. I will have enough to send you some and still have some to experiment with. I am wondering if I tried different soil amendments if that would help? Maybe if I sweetened the soil with calcium that might help some? I don't know. I don't give up that easily and I also know that I don't need many vines growing to see if I can improve the yield. Thanx for the update. We'll just be patient and wait for you to get some seed produced. Get it started early next year?
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Post by macmex on Nov 18, 2017 6:08:46 GMT -6
That's what I plan on doing. However, in 2018, I'll be sure to keep at least some of their supports lower, so I can more easily cover them, if early frost threatens. I'll also plant them closer to the house, so I can provide supplemental heat, in case of emergency.
Here we are, weeks later than that first hard freeze and it's about 72 F. before sunrise!
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Post by glen on Nov 19, 2017 22:28:41 GMT -6
Can you give us an idea of the type of climate this bean likes? How long does it take for the vines to start producing pods? How long does it take for the vines to produce mature dried beans ready for harvest? I am learning a lot by growing the oahacan creme vines. They take a long time to produce mature pods. The vines start very slowly. Then, little by little the amount of pods get larger. The vines have had blooms on them for quite awhile. At first the blooms just fall. Then, later, the fruits begin to set in greater numbers. Also, once the fruits set, the pods form very slowly. Completely different type of cycle than for example, my indigenous long beans which form pods very fast and in large quantity. I looked out there today and there are quite a few pods now in different stages of development. As the pods get mature they take on a purple hue. The darker the purple, the more developed the pods are. I have not picked a single pod to eat off these vines so I still know relatively little about them. But, I have been waiting until the pods get past the purple stage before picking them and bringing them inside to finish curing on a plate. A very different experience for me. I have been growing these vines out for months and still only have 12 seeds indoors. Its not as easy as I used to think.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Nov 24, 2017 5:31:23 GMT -6
George, you and Glen make for some interesting reading. Thank you for posting so many great photos, they sure look nice the day after Thanksgiving after the green is all dead out here.
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Post by macmex on Nov 24, 2017 7:26:05 GMT -6
Thanks Ron. Been hectic here. We have company for the Thanksgiving holiday. Glen, all I know for sure about the original growing conditions of Tarahumara Pink Green Bean is that the Tarahumara live in the Northern part of Mexico in a very dry, harsh environment. I've grown two beans from them. Both have shown extraordinary vigor, in that they pop out of the ground rapidly and grow very well. Though they are from the northern part of Mexico, that's still pretty far South compared to most beans grown in the USA. Additionally, one never knows exactly where the Tarahumara may have gotten them from. There was early trade between native peoples, in hemisphere, for more time than most people realize. There was a regular trade route between, say, Peru, and parts fo the desert Southwest of North America. Varieties from a given region will sometimes change growing behavior, when moved to a new environment. Then, even if it's many many years later, if returned to a similar environment, from whence they came, they can switch back to the old growth habits. This is especially notable in corn.
I do know, that at my latitude, this bean will not begin to flower until very late in the season. It's extreme vigor suggests to me that it comes from a place quite a bit farther South, perhaps further South than Northern Mexico. It appears adapted for harsher conditions, though I can't say if pollination is much affected by extreme heat. When this one starts blooming, here, the night time temperatures are beginning to moderate.
The vines are super impressive in vigor. You saw the picture I put up of the 18' pole I set, late in the season. The plants climbed it and then BROKE it, engulfing it, so I could not find the pole until after frost. Another unique characteristic of this bean is that the vines will move horizontally, as far as 6,' in search of additional support. I know of no other bean which does this. This means that the vines not only move up, they move OVER, grabbing additional forms fo support and covering a much larger area than one might think.
I recently got out there and harvested every pod I could find, which appeared fairly undamaged from the cold. There were more than I originally thought. I still need to shell the pods. But I wanted to give them some days to dry a bit more. The few pods I've opened have had some seed, which is about half as plump as what I usually get from this bean. This is because the plant did an emergency process of drying and maturing the seed before normal, in response to the cold. The seed should germinate. I'll do a test. However, it will not remain viable as long as really good seed. Still, it gets me going again for 2018.
I'll keep you all posted.
George
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Post by glen on Nov 24, 2017 10:55:44 GMT -6
Thats interesting George. We are very interested in that bean for down here in my part of Panama. Central America has many different micro-climates. I live in an area that has a 6 month rainy season that starts in May and ends at the beginning of December. That means we have about 1 week left of rainy season. When things are working correctly around here, the rain will stop like clock work when December visits. It will not rain another drop until sometime in May. Its going to be brutally hot here soon. In January, the winds will start and we will get these high winds from the N to NE that are just tireless. For months. I have had some luck growing during vegetables during this time period but its tough. Sweet potato's and melons like this time for example. I want to eventually try some of that tarahumara bean during the dry season. I will be impatiently waiting for seed to get ready. Temperatures during my dry season will be in the 90's every day and hot nights as well. We have a hard time with fruit set here because of the high night time temps I think. Actually, I am not sure exactly what is the problem?
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Post by macmex on Dec 17, 2018 14:32:42 GMT -6
Well, I planted Tarahumara Pink Green Bean, again, in 2018. Last year I did harvest more seed than I had hoped. The first killing freeze really hurt our harvest. But I did harvest enough for seed, and to send back to Native Seeds Search. They were kind enough to send me yet another small packet of seed, in order to assure a wider gene pool for the 2018 crop. This year I planted them on the South side of our milking shed and on a 6' trellis made of cattle panel. I also planted much later, assuming that due to their day length sensitive nature, they would still flower about the same time (1st of September). I observed the first flower on September 7.
Here's a picture of the main trellis on July 11, only a little over a month after planting:
Here's the same trellis on July 21.
I did have some of my Tennessee Cutshort/Cherokee Trail of Tears crosses growing on poles right beside this bean. But once I spotted first flowers on TPGB I cut the other vines, in order to prevent cross pollination.
Some observations on this bean in the 2018 growing season:
1) It was no where near as vigorous in the new location, with the new kind of trellis and the later planting date, as it showed itself in 2017. I'm sure it received a bit more shade. Our rain was quite sporadic and unreliable too. However, I really don't know why it was not as vigorous. At this point I can only guess.
2) I lost a fair number of plants without understanding why. They simply died. Maybe it was a root problem,
3) Even with a much later planting time, first flower was the first week of September (Sept. 7).
4) I planted, yet another cattle panel of these beans, on the East side of our shop (adjacent to the first planting) on June 26. These plants actually grew better, had no mortality bloomed at the same time as the first planting and out produced them in the end.
5) We had a killing frost on November 10. Temperature went down to 18 F. That morning. Yet, I believe we had a better harvest of Tarahumara Pink Green bean than in 2018. I yanked the vines and brought them inside.
At this point I haven't finished threshing and shelling, but the seed looks good. Much of it is more plump than last year, though the quantity is still not that high. I will probably do a repeat growing in 2019. It's interesting that I never had a struggle getting mature seed until I agreed to grow this one out for Native Seeds Search. It must be Murphy's law.
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