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Post by macmex on Mar 27, 2023 12:15:21 GMT -6
Ron, I've done the shirt pocket thing before, especially when living in a high cold rain forest environment. Shoot, we didn't even have hot water or a hot water heater until after we'd lived there for 6 months.
Also, I think some old timers were very different about sharing their knowledge and/or seed. I remember, back around 1986, on a visit to NJ, hearing from a friend about an old Russian immigrant who had seed of a yellow tomato he'd brought over when he fled the USSR. My friend gave me his phone # and, breathlessly, I called, hoping to snag a few seeds. You'd have thought I was the KGB. He didn't want to talk at all. All he said, as he hung up the phone, with a loud "clunk," was "I don't grow tomatoes anymore." I've also heard of old timers who who hardly share a single fruit from their coveted heirloom variety, and then, only after they meticulously removed all the seeds!
As a general rule seed savers, for some decades now have had a better attitude. Now a days I'd say it's VERY important to share seed with as many people as possible, in order that it not be lost. Hardly any one can count on the stability necessary to maintain varieties long term. A seed saver who saves a single variety for a year or two, and can share it at the appropriate time and need may actually be key in saving it when others, who may appear to be more stable have "stuff happen" and they lose it.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Mar 27, 2023 12:29:01 GMT -6
George,
That story of the tomato guy in New Jersey reminds me of growing up around so many Cherokee Indians who would not share their language with whites. I dated a full-blood Cherokee girl once whose mom never spoke a word of English to me. Try as I may, no one ever told me the meaning of a single word she said.
I tried to find books on the subject, but none were available. I asked questions, but no one would share.
Then, after that generation passed, they came very near to losing their language altogether. Now, they make a huge effort to teach Cherokee in many Oklahoma rural schools. When I was still teaching grade school, everything in my room was labeled with the name of that object in both Cherokee and English, a school-wide policy, so all the kids would learn to speak the language in an attempt to save it.
The world of seed saving has taken a similar path recently. (Thank goodness). Seed patents and trade secrets were almost the ruin of us all. Things like that just go to show how knowledge or a resource can disappear in the span of a single generation.
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Post by Tucson Grower on Mar 27, 2023 15:53:50 GMT -6
My fathers mother, Grandma Fern Clemens claimed to have ancestors that included a French woman married to a Cherokee man. Which would make me 1/16 of each. I never did check to see if she were correct, maybe someday I will. My mother was 100% Bohemian.
I was just admiring my two 12-pacs of HH seedlings; the only difference between them, now is the ones which emerged a day earlier have slightly flatter and darker green cotyledon leaves, otherwise they are amazing. I've started at least a dozen different okra varieties; none other germinate as uniformly as heavy hitter does. I haven't grown any, here in my conditions, yet, but if it continues to perform as it has already as seed/seedlings -- Wow.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Mar 27, 2023 20:37:51 GMT -6
Tucson,
You're making me want to start some Heavy Hitter Okra in pots over here, and I have no hope of pulling that off this time of year.
I'm rootin' for ya!
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Post by Tucson Grower on Mar 27, 2023 21:00:16 GMT -6
I just finished my, just before dusk, check, and it seems that many of the HH seedlings are on the verge of popping. I moved a few things out of the way, so I can begin creating the additional rows of 14 plants, 56 total - 28 HH and 28 SIR.
I'm always out in the garden, as the sun is coming up and plan to hand pollinate and use the hair clip method of isolation. Besides, if necessary I can have all the seed carried by the HH plants, that way I can quickly verify the veracity of my F1 generation - they will all carry red pigment, since they won't have received that gene from their HH parent, I can be sure, that, if the seed were harvested from a HH mother plant, the other parent were SIR, since it's the only red okra variety anywhere in the vicinity.
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Post by FrostyTurnip on Mar 28, 2023 7:46:18 GMT -6
It is tempting, isn’t it? I won’t be safe with soil temps until the first week of May, maybe later. Even then, we could get a killing frost.
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Post by Tucson Grower on Mar 28, 2023 8:12:43 GMT -6
Our daytime temps are often in the 100'sF before April is over.
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Post by FrostyTurnip on Mar 28, 2023 9:08:42 GMT -6
Our daytime temps are often in the 100'sF before April is over. Yes, sir. I must constantly remind myself of your climate. Fun to watch you grow but self restraint on my part is needed. LOL I cannot speak for Ron, but I’m anxious to get started on okra as the last two year’s growing season was shortened by about a 5 weeks and then it got too hot. That being said, it has been my experience that direct sowing always catches up to anything transplanted within our climate but last year’s overcast skies and cooler temperatures really pushed the envelope on the season.
What I find amazing is that Ron experienced this with his okra crop in addition to deer pressure. He still managed to produce quality seed for his orders.
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Post by Tucson Grower on Mar 28, 2023 9:54:28 GMT -6
Though, with global warming, who can say, for sure.
I am constantly amazed how Ron manages to produce a substantial crop, no matter what. It seems like he has a backup plan for just about anything, and can implement them on a moment's notice.
I was just reading about developing cold tolerance in plants. H'mmm.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Mar 28, 2023 16:28:31 GMT -6
Tucson,
You mentioned developing cold tolerance in plants. The cool thing about working with plants is that they have a short lifespan, so that a guy can see the results of his or her work in only a few seasons, unlike working with livestock, where you gotta wait so long to see any results. As gardeners, we got it made like that. Developing cold traits would be a very interesting endeavor. My problem is that I'm just one person with too many ideas, If I don't really make myself concentrate I'll go off on so many tangents that I'll not get any of them accomplished.
I remember seeing a tiny okra plant out there in the field, just one out of over 1,500 plantings that came up as a dwarf that way. I told my son who was with me that day, "I guarantee if a guy isolated that plant and developed that trait, someone would buy the seed you developed, just because it's a novelty." Then, a few years later, here comes a new variety called, "Baby Bubba" a tiny okra plant for people who enjoy patio gardening.
It sure would be cool if there was a group of people, all working on different things like that in one location.
Thanks all of you guys, for the gracious compliments, but all that glitters is not gold. I just about got skunked last year. I had huge plans for 2022. I expanded my garden from a quarter acre to a half acre, did more prep work than I've ever done in my life, and planted more than twice what I needed for seed, thinking I'd sell freshly picked okra at the Farmers Market and still make my seed orders too, but as it turned out, I had nothing to sell at the Farmers Market and barely made my seed quota. 2022 was hands down, the toughest year I've ever had out here.
What amazes me is how you all can pull off what you do in those arid environments. Compared to that, I've got it easy over on this side of the map. Our average annual rainfall is 50.03" inches.
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Post by Tucson Grower on Mar 29, 2023 9:59:09 GMT -6
Well, this morning I noticed that, last night 4 heavy hitter (HH), pre-sprouted seed, out of 29 have popped in the F1 production area, about 1/2 dozen more are swan-necking. Which gave me the inspiration - what to do with all the sea island red (SIR) pre-sprouts, that I have no heat mat or cell-pacs to accommodate. Plant them, in-place, like I already did for the HH pre-sprouts - duh.
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Mar 30, 2023 21:12:55 GMT -6
I'm getting there, by and by. All of my old okra plants are pulled out, stacked up, and ready to burn,(someday when we don't have 40 mph wind). All of my tomato cages are cleaned out, burned out, and stacked up. All of my plastic is ripped out and disposed of. All of my old drip tapes are dragged out and lined up side by side for someone else to use if they can, I've got three sides of my deer fence built, and I got all 70 of my elderberry plants pruned, (cut to the ground with a chainsaw). I still need to pick all of those up. That's going to take a good while.
If it ever stops raining, I'll plow and raise some new beds, then I can finish building the rest of the deer fence. Year to date, (within the last 89 days) we've had a little over 14.5" inches of rain. What a wet and muddy year this has been so far.
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Post by Tucson Grower on Mar 30, 2023 23:04:45 GMT -6
I have a recent quandry. A little while ago I planted two 12-pacs of pre-sprouted heavy hitter seedlings. I used pro-mix, pre-moistened with purified water in a 5-gallon bucket. I first 1/2 filled the cells with media, sprinkled some garden inoculant, approximately the same amount and from the same batch, layed in a pre-sprouted seed, then filled the cells with more of the same media, watered each cell with the same amount of water. I finished by giving each cell a tiny amount of very weak fertilizer. I then put the 2 cell-pacs, side-by-side in the same 1020 flat, I even switch their positions, every other day. They all emerged within 5 days. Tray A emerged 1-2 days before tray B. Immediately upon emerging the seedlings of tray A were darker green, with noticeable lighter veins, several days later, tray B's cotyledons have expanded a tiny bit more than those of tray A, and many of tray A are producing their first true leaf, while most in tray B are not. Seedlings of tray B are mostly still pale yellow/green compared to tray A. A few seedlings in tray B have begun to darken a little.
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Post by macmex on Mar 31, 2023 7:20:27 GMT -6
Ron, I'm WAY behind you. My wife wants to help me work on the garden this weekend, which will be a help.
Tucson, I'd bet that there was a mixing problem with your potting medium and nutrients were not evenly distributed; just my hunch.
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Post by Tucson Grower on Mar 31, 2023 8:01:01 GMT -6
I'm sure it will sort itself out once they are growing in the ground. Best thing is they're alive and growing.
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