What causes branching in Okra?

[john]

I was wondering what peoples thoughts were on this.  Does okra branch better on certain varieties or is it solely just plant spacing or some other factor?   

[Heavy Hitter Okra]

John,

I started out with Clemson Spineless okra that was as straight as a cane pole. That's all we had for decades, we just didn't know any better than to take what ever we could get as far as seeds go. These "cane pole" okra plants would put on about 15 or 20 pods of okra per plant during the course of the season. but then, corn only puts on one or two ears per plant, so we didn't think anything of it, and we had such a big garden, that we just planted lots of okra and lots of corn...

When I moved to our new house, we only had a little patch of the lawn that I had turned over with a shovel and called it a garden... I had about three rows of okra about 20 feet long. We would be so excited if we just managed to pick enough okra for a good mess to feed us and our four kids for supper.

Then, one year, I noticed that one of my okra plants didn't play out after only 15 or 20 pods; instead, it kept producing. When it got to about 50 pods, I stopped picking the remaining pods and kept the last few for seed.

The next year, I only planted those seeds saved from the plant that had grown over 50 pods. One of its descendants grew three branches. Each branch had its own crown of blooms and produced pods.

I kept those for seed, and later got plants that produced seven branches. Each year in succession, I got more and more branches, until, eventually, I got one with 65 branches. (That was the year deer ate all but 30 plants from my row of over 300 seedlings) so I initially thought the heavy branching was a result of wide, wide spacing.

Every year after that, I planted with wide spacing on purpose, and got branchy plants, because I had been saving branchy seeds.

This year, however, I had a surplus of seeds and planted double rows, on 18" inch centers, planning on thinning them out later; but I got sick and ended up in the hospital several times over the course of the gardening season and didn't get around to thinning the plants.

I ended up with branchy plants that are just a jungle of overlapping branches, because they were planted too thick. My rows are spaced 5' feet apart, and the branches overlap across the walk way, plus my plants are about 6 feet tall now.

They were probably stunted somewhat by the close spacing, but are still huge plants. They are very difficult to maneuver through, and as a result, very claustrophobic, and prickly, for picking, but I think it boils down to genes... I think branching is caused by a hidden gene, like some pigs have six working udders, while others of the same breed, might have as many as sixteen. Both pigs might be Hampshire pigs, but one will support a much higher rate of production, due to whatever genes that cause those things to happen.

As with pigs; the closer you house them, the more apt you are to get disease, or malnutrition that might cause you to lose production, so close plant spacing requires much richer soil, and lots more water, than wide spacing, but I think heavy branching lies within the plant's genome.

[john]

Very interesting. Sorry to hear about your trips to the hospital. I hope you are doing better.

[glen]

John, I wish there were others who were growing Heavy Hitter okra that were reporting their results here on the forum. I do not get the same results that Ron gets but I live in Central America. My plants have 3 or 4 branches and put on 25 to 35 okra per plant. I have grown them out several times and the results are about the same. Okra is very sensitive to the conditions that they are grown in. Heavy Hitter is a special landrace that has acclimated to Oklahoma. I would be very curious to hear others reports on it in different areas of the US.
At any rate, branching does not seem to be a dominant trait in okra. Careful selection has to be done when saving seed or the plants will just revert to its normal habit of tall, single stalk growth. Clemson spineless is very popular in the US and around the world and I believe that no careful seed selection is being done. They just harvest the entire seed crop and sell the seeds. Hense, single stalk plants. Single stalk plants can be grown very close together. Maybe there is a better reason that no effort is being done to come up with better variety's? Maybe farmers prefer the erect habit with less branching. If you grow okra solely for your kitchen, the single stalk erect plants are OK actually. Plant them 12 to 18 inches apart. The normal family doesn't need many plants really. Maybe a dozen. Even though my HH plants do not perform the same way Ron describes I have been eating okra till I am actually sick of it. I will continue to grow HH in the future as well since it does what I need it to do. Heavy branching, while interesting, isn't mandatory for enjoying plenty of okra in your home kitchen. There are literally thousands of different land races of okra and they are all fun to grow.

[Heavy Hitter Okra]

Despite adverse growing conditions this year, I've got some of the heaviest branching okra that I've ever had (and that's saying a lot). But some of it is also the latest okra that I've ever had... Some of my seeds were not planted until the 4th of July; those plants are just now blooming and starting to put on pods, but the first planting, from mid April, is almost done for the season.

I started planting my okra seeds on April 15th, then every two weeks thereafter, until I ran out of seeds about three months, and 600 to 800 plants later. I have okra at so many stages of development, you wouldn't believe it; from first bloom, to nearly played out...

My first two plantings were stunted by cold weather and too much rain. We got water up to the second strand on our 5 wire barbed wire fence at least once. I don't think it was that deep the second time we got flooded, but still, it was hard on the okra plants... When the water went down, they were covered with mud, but the next rain wasn't too far behind to wash them off.

Any okra planted from late May on, did very well. It stopped raining about June 2nd, and the day days, or maybe more importantly, the nights, finally started getting hotter. After that, anything I planted went crazy! MESO-NET says we had over 50 inches of rain for the season.

People have been coming from all over the place to pick their own okra from my garden, so this morning was the first time I've had a chance to pick okra just for me. I put 10 pounds in the freezer today for Winter.

I've picked over 200 pounds of okra this year, and still have plenty left over for seeds. However, I also have about 50 people on back order, waiting for this year's seed crop. When Thanksgiving rolls around, I'm going to be one very busy person, trying to fill all those orders!

[glen]

Ron, maybe its a good idea to stage your plantings? Just in case the early planting doesn't make it due to unforeseen weather conditions? Sounds like it anyways. I am leaving the rest of my current okra crop to save for seed myself. I have plenty in the freezer also. I am going to have to find a way to distribute some of my seed. The Indians here grow okra but I just don't know any. No one else here would want it.

[Heavy Hitter Okra]

I always end up planting okra 4 or 5 times each year, due to weather and hungry deer. It also keeps it coming on steadily over a longer period of time to have it at different stages. That way, you don't end up with a hundred pounds per week for two weeks, then nothing.

[Murali Boddeti]

Thanks All. I was just trying my luck by searching for multi-branch okra plant and I got this blog. This is my second year planning okra in Austin, Texas. I am Indian Indian by birth, we love Okra. I planted about dozen this year as my 4 plants last year could not handle our appetite. I have to see how I do this year. I spaced them 2 feet apart this time. I would love to get seeds that can produce 60 pods a plant.

[macmex]

Ron Cook (Heavyhitter) is the one who can help you out with that. He has seed. Welcome to our forum!

George

[heavyhitterokra]

@ Murali Boddeti

Welcome to our forum. My name is Ron Cook, email me; [e-mail] ---  I have branching, Heavy Hitter Okra seeds.
 Last year, I harvested 820 pounds of okra for the Tahlequah Farmers' Market; from only 4 and 1/2 rows of Heavy Hitter Okra.  At the end of the season, I left the last 200 pounds of pods on the plants to mature for seed, but only harvested the top 12 plants.  (That was enough to fill several grocery bags full of dried pods).  I have a small house, so seed storage space is at a premium. My rows are 150' feet long.

 I call this branching variation, "candelabra" I like this variation the best.  Though it is not always the heaviest producer, it's still nice to look at and is very hard to uproot. I guarantee you won't use this plastic twice!

 These are just a few of the many branching variations of Heavy Hitter Okra.  I don't save seed from any plant that produces fewer than 100 pods per season.

I have archived photos of over 65 different branching variations, all producing over 100 pods per plant, per season.  

I don't know if these Photobucket images are still active, but there's a link below ...

s1381.photobucket.com/user/fourteenmilecreek/library/Heavy%20Hitter%20Okra%2044%20Days%20Old?sort=3&page=1

If this link is not 'hot' there is one that still works, on the 15th reply on page 15 of the Heavy Hitter Okra thread, from back in July of 2015 ... That's a lot of fifteens! 
seedsavingnetwork.proboards.com/thread/15/heavy-hitter-okra?page=15   

[heavyhitterokra]

Every year, I plant Heavy Hitter Okra, for its heavy branching and high pod production.  Every year, I plant about 4 rows of okra, around 150' feet long.  Today, I've been going through my records and found that by Labor Day, 2015, I had harvested about 200 pounds of okra (myself).  I had 'U-Pick' customers that year, who picked on the 'honor system' so I had no real 'tangible records' of what they harvested.  For that reason, I didn't record those 'U-Pick' reported harvests.

In 2018, I planted four and a half rows of Heavy Hitter Okra, and harvested 820 pounds of okra for market, plus left about 200 pounds of pods in the field for seed.

Each year, I try to 'up my game' by harvesting seeds from no more than a dozen of my best plants.  So, of those 200 pounds of mature pods, only about 15 pounds of actual seeds were collected, from only twelve of the very best specimens.

This year, despite the crazy, wet weather and lingering cloud cover, I have the craziest branching I believe I have ever seen. (Some of my plants have leaves that are 18" inches wide) They look like they are growing in the tropics.

I only planted 3 and a half rows of okra this year, though, to make more room for tomatoes, because last year, I out produced my okra market and ended up giving away over 100 pounds of tender pods.  (A thing I don't mind doing) but I haven't sold tomatoes in a while and wanted to switch gears for the sake of keeping gardening moral high.  So far, this season, I've harvested around 100 pounds of tomatoes, though my okra harvest remains around 15 pounds for the month of July.

What I harvest for the remainder of the season remains to be seen, as the harvest is coming in a few weeks late, due to the weather-delayed planting date. So far, I've harvested only about 15 pounds of okra and it is already July the 7th.  My first harvest of okra usually occurs by June 20th.  This year, however, first bloom did not occur until June 20th.
 From looking at this photo, taken June 20th, 2019, I see that I apparently missed the first bloom.  (I see the beginnings of a pollinated okra pod, one node below this blossom).  Though this was my earliest blossom of the 2019 season, this plant will be destroyed due to the lack of branching before fruit set). 

That seems an unfortunate situation, but I can't allow this plant's DNA to re-enter the gene-pool at seed saving time.  I save seed for heavy branching as well as heavy pod production.  It's not an either or process.  (My standard for seed saving is to collect specimens, only from plants bearing 100 pods or more per season, across no less than 20 branches.)

[heavyhitterokra]

My latest photo of the branching phenomena of my Heavy Hitter Okra. I have been so busy pruning heavy foliage this year, I have hardly had time to harvest okra. This particular plant gave me 8 tender pods in one day last Saturday morning.

[hedgeapple]

To branch or not to branch?

I've been working on my own variety of okra for 10 years and for the first time I have a plant with a multi-branching habit which brings me to a definite fork in the road. Do I select for branching or keep a smaller upright plant? I guess it depends on the purpose of the variety. So far I've only been concerned with flavor.

[macmex]

It's really up to you. Personally, I prefer the branching kinds. One gets higher production with fewer plants. Hopefully Ron will drop in here and contribute his opinion. He's our okra "guru."

That's wonderful that you're working on your own variety! Takes dedication!

[heavyhitterokra]

Hedgeapple,

That's great news to hear that you're making steady progress toward achieving a certain desired goal in the development of your own variety of okra.

With plants like okra, you can select for a variety of desired outcomes, such as heavy branching, or no branching, various numbers of seed chambers, flower color, leaf size, shape, and color, pod size, pod color, the list goes on.

Everyone has their own personal favorites, so it doesn't seem like you can possibly please everyone. I think you should pursue whatever you are most interested in. If branching is your goal, go for branching, if it's something else, then follow that vector. The most important thing is that you maintain whatever it is that keeps you interested in gardening.

Though specialty gardeners are not always fully appreciated, they will always be needed. Almost any variety of food plant can be improved on, somehow, but it takes a very dedicated person to accomplish that. Keep up the good work and keep us updated on your progress.