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Post by fourteenmilecreek on Jul 29, 2015 17:10:59 GMT -6
Note from administrator: I have moved this posting to this thread, where it is more pertinent. However, it appears to be beyond my current capabilities to place it after the post with which I opened this thread. So, kindly read the second post first and then this one John, I was re-reading your post about growing pumpkins for competition. Here in Oklahoma, we are handicapped by hot, dry, weather and as a rule, very limited in the area of pumpkin production. My personal best was a 112 pound Bix Max variety grown back in 1978. Pumkins don't like my acidic soil here, but blueberries love it! I have to ammend the heck out of my 5.4 pH soil to make it sweet enough for pumpkins. Pumpkins here suffer from a contiual onslought of squash bugs, tall weed compitition, and in a wet year like this; powdery mildew. What do you do where you live to keep weeds at bay? And more importantly; how do you keep squash bugs in check? Do you know your soil's pH level? *** By the way, I believe we have a thread on growing pumpkins, and other cucuberts, under the heading of: OUR CROPS. Have you posted anything there yet? I'll bet folks would be very interested in your expert advice. (I know I would, I'm not very good at growing pumkins, and have always wanted to be better at it). I discoverd inadvertantly this year, that Austrian Winter Peas would probably make good weed control for a pumpkin patch, as they grow about two feet tall, in a dense mesh of thickly leaved vines, and die in late May to early June; leaving a thick, natural, staw like mulch that lasts well into July.
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Post by George's Administrator Hat on Aug 2, 2015 6:10:00 GMT -6
Okay, over on the okra forum we got a little sidetracked into this topic. It is such a good topic that we decided to move the thread over here, so it can have it's own dedicated following. This will make it easier for people to find the information as well. Though it appears that the administrator started the thread, the real "owner" is john. I'm sure he'll jump in quickly and be able to answer any further questions on growing giant pumpkins.
George
------------------------------------------------------------------ john started, while commenting on Ron's work with Heavy Hitter Okra. I'm going to leave that comment there and copy it here for context.
I am very impressed, I would definitely be interested in growing your variety next year. I wonder how it would do up here in CT. I usually grow 'Cowhorn' and 'Clemson spineless' Both have done well for me in the past, but nothing like the production you are getting with the 'Heavy Hitter'. I love to read about stories of how a particular variety came about. It is amazing to see what neat traits are sometimes tucked away in the gene pool. I grow Atlantic Giant pumpkins for competition. The current world record is now over 2,300 pounds! Howard Dill (the breeder) could never have imagined that his seeds would someday reach such sizes. Crossing of the biggest with the biggest over and over has truly coaxed out these mammoth genes. I too would have never thought such weights were possible even 5-10 years ago. I believe that the internet has also really helped to speed up the progress. People are sharing seeds and information with each other. People of like interests are being connected like never before. I believe the same type of progress (as seen with the Atlantic Giants) could be had with other crops if people had an interest in them and worked together.
Read more: seedsavingnetwork.proboards.com/thread/15/heavy-hitter-okra?page=16&scrollTo=758#ixzz3hetua7is
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Same with Ron's reply. I'm going to leave the original post in its place, as it has relevance to the discussion on okra. But for the purpose of giant pumpkins, here it is:
Welcome John, and thanks for that input; very well written, and very true!
I believe God made all things perfect in the beginning, or else those genes could not have been pulled out by simple folk like myself.
Seeds harvested by careful selection of only the strongest plants is all that I've done to develop this heavily branching strain. Everything that has come from this process was already in there...
God does all the cool stuff, I just try to pay attention.
After I first observed something out of the ordinary happening in my okra crop, I was able to pull those traits out by careful selection - the same way a rancher would develop a better line of Black Angus cattle by selecting only the best stock from his herd for breeding.
For example: When I was a kid, my Dad started building up a herd of cattle that went from 800 pounds finished weight in 1972, to 1,200 pounds finished weight by 1990. By careful selection, and culling of the weaker animals, he was able to add 400 pounds of finished weight to most of his herd.
This took a little less than 20 years, and about 8 or 9 generations to accomplish. In fact, Dad backed off in about 1992 due to the fact that his cattle were being docked by the feed lot buyers. They were docked in price because the slaughter houses were only set up for 900 pound carcasses, and his were exceeding their processing capabilities. At that time, smaller framed cattle were bringing better prices per pound than his 1,200 pound cattle, so Dad started holding at about 1,000 pounds as a result. Not to mention smaller cattle are cheaper to feed out in Winter, so they require less hay, and less grain too.
I don't raise cattle anymore, so now I'm kind of out of the loop on that subject, but I applied my knowledge of breeding cattle, to the development of my own line of okra over the past few decades... Once again, You can't pull something out of any creature or any plant, that God didn't already have there in the first place.
Think of the giant plants it must have taken to sustain dinosaurs once upon a time... Those traits are still in there somewhere; we just have to be vigilant in our everyday life to recognize them and save the seeds when they reoccur.
I don't know if Heavy Hitter would fair very well in Connecticut?
It didn't do well in Oklahoma last year, due to our unseasonably cool Spring and Summer. We had night time lows in the mid 50s well into July last Summer, and lots of rain, with too many days of overcast skies. My plants suffered as a result. I don't know which was worse, the lack of light, or the lack of heat?
This Summer, we've had even more rain than we did last year, but it's been unbearably hot and humid since mid June, with lots of blaring sunlight. My plants this year are doing better than they did last year, as a result.
Heavy Hitter originally came from Clemson Spineless parent stock, but puts so much energy into branching that it only gets about five or six feet tall in Oklahoma; whereas Clemson Spineless, with its single stalk habit grows to about seven feet tall here. Currently, my Heavy Hitter plants are at about 4' feet tall, but are growing about an inch per day in this heat and bright sunlight we're having after the 50' inches of rain we've received this year.
It's too early in the season to take a guess at how tall the final product will be, but some of my plants already have upwards of 30 branches and it's still only July.
Last night, we picked 10 pounds of 4" inch, frying size okra to give away to relatives and friends; plus picked enough 1" inch, and 2" inch, baby okra, to pickle 12 pint jars for the kids.
Some of my plants produced as many as 6 tender pods last night, from several fruiting branches.
By the looks of all the blooms I'm seeing, I'll be covered up in okra by next week!
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Post by macmex on Aug 2, 2015 6:34:42 GMT -6
This is all wonderful input! (John and Ron) I'm going to have to try Austrian Winter Peas! Ron, as a transplanted (several times over) New Jerseyan, I can say that weeds, up that way, do not grow anywhere near as vigorously as they do here. Our heat combined with the type of weeds we have, some of which do not survive the Northeast's climate, makes a huge difference. John, we have to grow very different squash here, if we're going to make a good crop. Some folk will nurse an Atlantic Giant along. But it's really on life support the whole time, and it might just up and die anyway. We tend to grow more of the c. moschata species, which handles the heat and bugs better. I need to start a thread on regionally adapted squash/pumpkins. I thought we already had one.
George
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Post by George's Administrator Hat on Aug 2, 2015 6:39:57 GMT -6
Admin: This was posted by john. After this, everything that should follow, should be marked as having been posted by the person who actually posted it, and in the correct order. Whew!
By john: Hi George and Ron So many interesting thought and ideas. I agree Ron, God's creation was perfect and after He made it, He said it was good. So if God said it was good, it must be really good! Ever since the fall of mankind, our world is no longer perfect. Yet, there is still so much good that remains today from God's original creation. It is often still hidden in the genes of our plants, good things like disease and insect resistance, drought and heat tolerance, yield, taste, medical and nutritional qualities. All the different plant varieties are like puzzle pieces cut from an original perfect single piece. Giant pumpkins are a lot of fun, but are not something of great practical value. I do sell them as they command a very good price. Also the cows really love to eat them, but as far as human food there are so many better choices. ( My favorites are the butternut and buttercup.) The Atlantic Giants like a pH around 6.5-7. Mine is around 6.2. We have very acidic soils here too. Mine was 5.4 when I started. Our biggest problem weeds in the pumpkin patch are pigweed, lambsquarters, and hairy galinsoga. Crabgass and purslane are also a problem but they don' t grow tall enough to really bother the Atlantic Giants. I grow a huge garden, probably a couple of acres, so I often don't have time to keep up with the weeds in the pumpkins. This year I tried a different approach, kind of like the Back to Eden method. I put down 3-4 inches of partially rotted horse manure mixed with shavings then I covered it with a thick layer of mulch hay. As a trial to compare against the mulched plants, I grew a couple Atlantic Giants on regular tilled garden soil. So far the ones grown on the permanent mulch have outperformed the traditionally grown ones. I will let you know how I make out. It is common to lose pumpkins and plants right up until the day of the weigh-off. There are so many things that can go wrong, often times they do. Right now I have a couple of plants that look to have the dreaded Yellow Vine Disease. If I do, it is game over. One of the techniques we giant pumpkin growers employ is to cover up a portion of the vine at each leaf node with a little soil or compost. This will cause the plant to grow a second set of roots off the top of the vine. So you get two roots and not just the one on the bottom that rests on the soil. The seed is also extremely important. I tried growing giant pumpkins for years with no success. (112 pounds for a big max is pretty impressive by the way.) The Atlantic Giant variety they sell through seed companies is entirely different than the competition strain you receive from other competitive growers. The growing power in true competition seed is amazing. Some can grow up to 50 pounds in one night. (that is a real thrill) One other key thing that I learned is that you have to adjust the vine and pumpkin so that the pumpkin vine can lift up as the pumpkin grows. If the vine is rooted your pumpkin will pull off the vine at 200-300 pounds or so. There is a web site called bigpumpkins.com. Everything you ever wanted to know is on that site. Many growers give details and pictures of their growing seasons in their" diaries". I have a diary on there my handle is "big moon". Another important factor is pruning the fruits and vines, Most growers prune their vines to resemble the shape of a Christmas tree. You want one fruit per plant at least 10' out on the main vine. The pumpkin on the main vine may start out slower than one on a secondary vine but it will be your best grower in the end. Squash bugs are a huge problem and are disease vectors of many diseases including the dreaded Yellow vine disease. You will have to spray for them if you want to increase your odds of getting one to the scale. Insects and diseases are a big problem! I don't know of any growers in Oklahoma. But I do have friends that grow in nearby states. Alabama, Arkansas, Missouri, Many growers in hot places with lots of sun like to use a shade cloth over the plants to help protect the young growth. This is probably much more than you wanted to know. Growing these giants can be addictive once you see what kind of growth potential they have. So be warned! LOL Let me know if you want seeds, I can send you some.
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Post by john on Aug 2, 2015 9:27:51 GMT -6
Thank you George for relocating this thread. Anyone who is interested in the history of the giant pumpkin might find this link to be interesting. www.sngpg.com/ag_history.aspx
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Post by fourteenmilecreek on Aug 2, 2015 15:49:40 GMT -6
Great read John,
Very interesting post about growing giant pumpkins. I've never heard of pruning the vines.
How did you change your soil's pH? Was it just by adding lime, or were there other factors involved?
Ron
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Post by john on Aug 2, 2015 17:17:47 GMT -6
The first fall I added dolomitic lime which is the most common around here. This brought the pH up to around 6 the following spring. My soil test showed I didn't need any more magnesium so I had to go out and find calcitic lime (with out the magnesium) I added that to the soil and it got the pH to about 6.8. It has kept pretty stable since then, I really feel adding all the compost and manures that I do helps to stabilize the pH and the soil pretty neutral.
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Post by bngbld on Sept 25, 2015 15:28:35 GMT -6
i don't really need 500pound pumpkins id be happy with a ten pound pumpkin the problem is ants ants every where i killed most of them just by diging them up but they still keep coming they kill all my blossom. and they killed all my baby red potatoes what do i do about it.
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Post by bngbld on Sept 25, 2015 15:29:15 GMT -6
i don't really need 500pound pumpkins id be happy with a ten pound pumpkin the problem is ants ants every where i killed most of them just by diging them up but they still keep coming they kill all my blossom. and they killed all my baby red potatoes what do i do about it.
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Post by bngbld on Sept 25, 2015 15:30:03 GMT -6
opps sent that two times
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Post by john on Sept 25, 2015 18:50:42 GMT -6
I am not really sure what to tell you about the ants. I have never really had a problem with them killing anything in my garden. The only time I see ants start to become a problem is when there are aphids or other insects feeding on my plants and making a sticky honeydew for the ants to consume. If I can get the aphids under control the ants will go away. Maybe someone else on here will have experience with your problem and be able to help you.
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Post by macmex on Sept 25, 2015 19:26:10 GMT -6
Bngbld, Where to you garden? Are these fire ants by any chance? George
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keith
New Member
Posts: 8
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Post by keith on Sept 28, 2015 21:07:27 GMT -6
Bngbld ,we had a ant problem earlier in the year as well.We used cornmeal to get rid of them and it worked quite well . Sprinkled it everywhere about three to four times over two week period cleaned them right up .This was the first time we used it so we quite happy. Keith.
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Post by bngbld on Sept 28, 2015 21:12:07 GMT -6
thanks for the tip
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Post by heavyhitterokra on Oct 27, 2017 14:32:21 GMT -6
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