On saving pepper seed

[macmex]

Hey folks,

    If you're like me, you grew peppers this year and then, when the first freeze came, you hurriedly yanked the plants, peppers and all, and stuck them somewhere safe, to process later. 

If you're like me... you forgot about them and now you need to do something to clean up the mess of that jumbled pile of pepper plants (plants, pods and drying leaves). 

This is the time to seriously think about processing some seed for the coming year(s), unless you prefer to purchase plants each season. I like to save seed for a couple of reasons:

1) Most of the peppers I grow are not readily available as started plants, and, in fact, might become impossible to find (at least in our country) is someone doesn't make the effort to maintain them. 

2) I really can't afford to purchase transplants for everything I plant. Peppers are one of those things that work well for me from seed.

3) I like the varieties I grow, not only because of their unique culinary qualities,  but also for their unique histories. 


So, I save seed.

The first thing I should mention, is that peppers which are picked green and stored at room temperature or even in a cool place, will continue to mature. That's to say that your green pods, which generally don't contain mature seed, will eventually turn red and mature seed. Keep in mind, however, that the greed pods which mature, while in storage, will not have as high quality seed as a pod which matured while the plant was still growing. The seed will probably have a lower germination rate and shorter shelf life. So, right now, if you have pods "out in the shed," it would be a good idea to select some for seed, from those which were the most mature at harvest time.


Secondly, it's important to understand that peppers can and do cross in the garden. There are a number of distinct species of peppers, which usually don't cross breed. But the majority of peppers commonly grown in American gardens are from the c. annum species. Peppers like Serrano, Jalepeño, banana peppers, Poblano peppers, Ancho, cherry and bell peppers cross with one another. In order to maintain pure seed it's necessary either to construct a type of cage around some plants, which keeps pollinators out (will write more about that another time). I have never done this. Or to separate varieties, giving them some isolation space. Note: Tabasco peppers are from the c. frutescens species. They can be planted right with your c. annum species peppers and will not usually cross with them. Also, the habanero type peppers are usually from the c. chinese species. They won't cross with Tabasco or the c. annums. So, I generally like to grow no more than one variety from a species, and not have to worry about crossing.

Note: at a later date I will address intraspecies crossing (crossing between species). Though not real common, it can happen. I simply haven't had to worry about it.

Okay, so back to those peppers in your shed...
1) Select a couple for seed.
2) If they are hot peppers, be sure to wear latex or vinyl gloves when working with the pods. That capsicum (acid which makes them hot) will sneak up on you and get you if you are not careful!
3) Wearing gloves, use a sharp knife to slice a pod open and scrape out seed. Scrape the seed onto a paper or plate, so it can dry further. The pod itself can be used immediately or dried for later use. The white membrane in the pod, to which the seeds are attached, contains A LOT of capsicum! So, beware! DO NOT TOUCH your eyes, face or other delicate parts of the body, while handling hot peppers!
4) Allow the seeds to dry for a couple weeks.
5) Scrape them off the plate or paper and store them in an envelope, plastic bag or jar. 
6) Store in a cool place and away from light. Darkness will prolong their viability. Coolness will do the same.

Under normal conditions, seed stored this way will be good for about 3 years. It can last a lot longer. But count on three years. If you live in a very humid climate, don't count on them lasting over a year. Maybe they will. But don't count on it.

I can't deal with it now. But I will deal with ways to better dry seed and how to store it longer. This is the "fast and dirty version." 

[macmex]

I'd like to invite others to add to this thread. I certainly don't consider myself to be a pepper expert. These are just some points I've learned over the years.

Here's a link to a good website on the various species of peppers. At glance, I'd say they give good info.

The Chile Man

The only caveat I'd make is that, in my experience, the different species do not cross between each other very easily. I typically grow one pepper of each of two or three species, every year, usually separating each variety by at least 30.'  In decades I never had a cross. On the other hand, in 2012, my brother in NJ purchased something like 20 varieties  f c. chinese and planted them in a long, wide row. That fall I collected some seed and planted it it in 2013. I had nearly a 20% rate of crossing from that seed. Every cross was a great hot pepper, which exhibited that great hot/sweet after burn of the c. chinese species. So, the crosses constituted a potential bonanza for plant breeding, but a challenge for a preservationist. I was able to select for the original variety and, in a single generation we had purity again.

One last observation (for now):
Almost all sweet peppers are from the c. annum species. Many hot peppers are c. annum. Yet, almost without exception, hot peppers are easier to germinate than are sweet peppers. I believe the hot ones are also hardier.

George

[glen]

Great thread. I have been waiting for this. I haven't heard you mention anything about freezing the seed. I do see pepper seeds stored in a fridge in the one store that sells seeds here in Panama. Seeds cannot be stored for long at room temperature here. Humidity is high and mildew can grow on seeds easily.
I have noticed that some variety's of pepper are very difficult to germinate. Some, including jalepeno and habenero are really easy to germinate and grow. Ron says he will send me some Tam jalepeno seeds in the future which are supposed to be very mild jalepeno's. That could be my ticket since jalepeno's grow here like there is no tomorrow and the plants live for a long time. The larger the pepper, the harder it is for me to grow here in Panama. I am currently experimenting with a couple of different variety's of sweet peppers in search for something that will grow well. Panamanians call most peppers here aji criollo which just means sweet peppers. If they are shaped like a bell pepper they call them pimiento's. Habinero's are called Chumbo's. Jalepeno's are just jalepeno's. I think that the reason they don't sell sweet jalepeno's here is because when the customer see's them they assume that the pepper is hot and won't buy it, not believing that there is such a thing as a sweet jalepeno. But, they are very good. They don't really have many different names for peppers here. The large bell peppers they sell here are imported from California and they are super expensive.

[macmex]

As long as the seed is properly dried, cool is good and frozen is better. Keeping seed cool can prolong its life for several years. Keeping it frozen can prolong its life for decades. I have been told, however, that frozen seed, once unfrozen, may age very rapidly. So it doesn't just pick up in the aging process, where it "left off" when frozen.

I suspect that an advantage, in Panama, in keeping seed in the fridge, is that the fridge's condenser unit should help lower the humidity in the environment around the seed. Humidity can be even more damaging than heat. 

We once lived in a high cold rain forest for several years. There I had seed expire in less than a year. 

One more bit of trivia: I checked the germination on the original bag of Chile Rayado seed, which I received in 2006, and found, something like 6 or 7 years later, that it was still germinating at a very acceptable rate. Yet this seed was stored at room temperature, in a building in which air conditioning was hardly ever used. Why is this so? I suspect it has to do with the variety of pepper, but I'm not positive about it. All we can take away from this, with certainty, is that pepper seed may sometimes last much longer/better than is generally thought.

[glen]

George, I really appreciate the information. Is there a place on the fórum where you have explained how to save bean seed? I think the subject of seed saving and storage of the seed is one of the most important subjects on this site since we deal quite a bit with seed that is hard to come by and or expensive to come by. I am going to have a nice cache of oaxacan creme bean seeds fairly soon. I want to freeze them properly so they last a long time. I don't want to put them in the freezer to early by not allowing them to dry long enough nor do I want to keep them at room temperatura too long either. I could end up with 3 or 4 hundred seeds at least and obviously they would be worth saving so they can be distributed to other gardeners. On the subject of freezing pepper seeds. There isn't much information on freezing pepper seeds online so information like this is invalueable. Especially for someone like me who has almost no Access to commercially grown seed vendors.

[glen]

Ok, I have new information on pepper seed saving. I was on a website called seedaholic reading about pepper seed saving and it said that freezing chili pepper seeds can kill the seeds. I have had that happen to me. The website did say that storing the seed in an airtight container in the fridge is the best way to store your pepper seed. I would like to see this information shared by different writers because information online is sometimes not correct. However, I am having problems with jalepeno seed saving right now so I have been searching online for information on this issue.

[macmex]

I have always frozen my pepper seed, but once it's good and dry. Hmm... I wonder if there are certain kinds of peppers which don't freeze well? Could you post the source?

[glen]

I was on a website called seedaholic reading about pepper seed saving. Now, Peppers are a wide branch in this hobby called gardening. There are several different capsaicum species and they are all different. Some can interbreed. Some rarely do. Some of the real hot chili's are very hard to grow. And, each variety seems to be slightly different as far as seed saving requirements. I am no expert. However, I can say that freezing pepper seeds has never brought me good fortune. I also noticed that pepper seed does not have a real long shelf life here in Panama. Peppers vary. Pepper seeds do not like real warm temps when it comes to storage. I would think that if you do not know for sure, it is the safest to just pack the seeds in a zip lock bag, with absorbant bags inside to absorb any moisture, and also to store this seed with all the air squeezed out, in the fridge. Probably the best place would be in the veggy drawers. Now, George, I am sure that your seed did fine in the freezer. However, unless you have first hand experience with your exact variety, I would not chance it. Put part of your seed stash in the freezer as a test to see what happens. Especially if your seed is rare and desireable. My contention is that some variety's can take freezing and some cannot.

[glen]

Pepper seed saving in Panama can be challenging. I don't know if my experience is applicable to seed savers in the US or not. But, lately I have been experiencing mold or mildew on my pepper seeds. This occurs during the rainy season primarily. I am currently saving seed now and am seeing mold. I have made some mistakes also. As I have mentioned before, not all pepper seeds can be treated the same way. For example, bird peppers can just be dried whole on a little plate. If you don't like messing with the tiny seeds just plant a dried bird pepper whole. Thin them out later. In nature, this is how they would be germinated anyways. Different peppers are juicier. I made the mistake of scraping out the seed on some C Chinense sweet peppers and not seperating the membranes from the seed before placing them on the drying plate. I also made the mistake of not rinsing the seed with water. Some folks have mentioned soaking the seed in a very mild solution of bleach water or hydro-peroxide water for a minute or two to help kill some of the bacteria and mold that could also grow on the seed. Also, I believe that mold is helped to grow by the pepper juice that is on the seed if rinsing is not done. Also, if it is humid this also feeds into the mold problem. So, this is what I am doing now. I choose premium pods. I split them on a cutting board and separate the seed from the membrane. Then I rinse them and dry them in front of a fan for 24 hours. After that, I let them finish drying for 2 to 3 more weeks. Then, I package them in a baggy and put them in the fridge. Like I said, some folks even use bleach water although I haven't tried this. Pepper seeds are pretty tough. Pepper seed is eaten by birds for example and then pooped out and the seed germinates perfectly. But moldy seeds can give you trouble. Also, you don't want to send moldy seeds to anyone in the mail. You want the seed to look as pretty as possible.

[glen]

Also, pepper plants can cross. George mentioned this. Some species will not cross with particular species of peppers. My experience in Panama is that pepper crossing is a huge problem. We have so many different insects that visit the blooms that it is inevitable that a single insect is going to visit the bloom and cross pollenate it with a different variety's pollen. As George said, this might not happen. For me, it usually does happen. This can be disastrous if you are a seed saver. The only way to ensure this doesn't happen is to isolate the blooms. Find some hair net type material and fashion a bag out of it. Or, use the entire hair net to cover the end of a branch that is just about to have blooms. Leave the hair net on the branch until you see the blooms and you begin to see the blooms close. Then, you have to mark the blooms that you know are self pollenated. I have experience isolating okra blooms and that is a pain in the butte too but much easier sounding than working with peppers. This is the only way you can assure you have self pollenated blooms. If you are growing sweet chinense peppers for example. You don't want Chombo's or habenero's crossing with them. That would ruin your sweet C Chinense pepper seed. Or, vice versa, you don't want your chombo's crossed with sweet peppers either.

[rdback]

I too have heard that freezing seeds preserves them indefinitely. As far as I know, that is the process the seeds held in gene banks worldwide use to preserve plant seeds, including beans and chiles. The secret is they need to be very dry. Even a little moisture will cause the cells to rupture, killing the seed.

Glen, in your locale it sounds like the "rainy" season presents a huge problem for you to dry your seeds thoroughly without them molding. The diluted bleach rinse sounds promising.

Another thought is to use vinegar. It is a trick you can use when starting a ferment. Spray the surface lightly with vinegar every day for the first week or so to keep mold at bay until the lacto bacillus bacteria can get a foot-hold. Might help keeping mold at bay on your seeds as they dry.

The only other thing I can think of is to accelerate drying. If you happen to have a dehydrator, you can dry your peppers at a low temperature (100-105f) for a few days. The seeds will be dry and still viable. Be careful though. Anything above 105f will most likely cook the seeds.

[macmex]

I'm pretty sure that the "freeze/kill problem" is due to too much moisture in the seed. I once killed off my entire supply of an extremely rare bean, by freezing the seed when it wasn't completely dry.

Glen, I know something of your conditions. We lived five years in a high cool rain forest. There, my seeds, even in jars, didn't last 6 months (guess the jars weren't closed tightly enough). Also, I probably opened them, letting the humidity in. We had mold growing everywhere. Had to install a light bulb in the stand alone closet (ropero) just to keep our clothes from molding and rotting. For this kind of condition I'm pretty sure that some kind of special protocol would be necessary. Silica gel could help, but one needs to have a way to get that dry!

Also, seeds die when they get too dry.

For most people (except those in places like where Glen lives) it helps to leave the seeds on trays, drying, for a good two or three weeks. Avoid temperatures over 100 F, if possible.

There's got to be some instrument for measuring humidity of seed, but I don't know it.

Once dry, pepper seed can be stored for about 4 years at 70 F and out of direct sunlight. A dark, cool storage place is best, if one isn't freezing the seed.

Here's another suggestion: with hard to find seed, don't store it all in the same container, using the same method. Perhaps freeze some and save some at room temperature, even in a paper envelope, in case of a humidity problem. Paper would let that excess humidity dissipate.  

The pepper seed with the longest longevity, in my experience, is Rayado. I once planted seed which was stored more than 10 years at room temperature, in a bag closed with a twisty, and had good germination. Every other pepper I've grown has shown a much shorter shelf life.

[glen]

I appreciate all the suggestions. There is a happy medium somewhere with the pepper seeds. I am not sure how to find it. I got seed drying now on top of the fridge. Been there for almost 3 weeks. I plan to store it in the fridge because I don't know if it is dry enough to put in the freezer. The only seed that I have that is rare for me right now is the thai hot seed. I can't buy that in Panama. The other seed is not so important. However, when I send some of my Chinense seed to Ron, it will be rare to him since there isn't much access to sweet ahi seed(C chinense) peppers in OK. So the idea's shared might be useful. Ron can dry the seed a little more if he wants before storing it in the freezer. The bottom line is that seed saving is different depending on where you are doing the seed saving. There is almost no seed available in Panama with the exception of buying something fresh in the market and then saving the seed. I think this would be typical in most third world poor country's. In the future, I might be getting some very rare, super hot pepper seed. The experience gained now, will help me when it is time for me to save seed from that grow out.

[glen]

Oh, I wanted to also say this. There is some seed available in Panama to purchase. Very little. When I buy the seed, most of the time it does not germinate. This is for all variety's of seed. There are 2 stores here that I have bought seed from and both sell bad seed. The seed is expensive too. From what I have seen so far, most of the seed comes from Italy. It has the current year on the pack so it is not technically old. But, in Panama I think the seed just goes bad quicker. My okra seeds seem to fair much better though for whatever reason.
Nothing seems to last in my climate.

[heavyhitterokra]

Thanks, for starting this thread. It has been an interesting read; I've enjoyed it a lot today.

Somewhere, amongst all these threads, I've posted a comment on the efficiency of the good, old, US Postal Service and how we tend to take that service for granted.

Today, Glen sent me confirmation that the pepper seeds postmarked on September 26, 2019, finally arrived at their destination in Panama. That took about 50 days, give or take a few.

The reason I'm posting that information here is so, if anyone is planning on shipping seeds overseas, they know to leave plenty of lead time for those seeds to arrive within the correct season.

Because of the 50 day lag time, the optimal pepper planting season has passed us by. Now, Glen will have to 'nurse' these plants through the entire dry season, or wait to plant them next Spring, when there are better growing conditions there.  Sorry about that, Glen.  I'm glad the seeds finally arrived though.  I had just about given up on them.